Irish Border post Brexit

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
Basically a refusal to acknowledge the authority of HM Government and Westminster over Northern Ireland. Though there is the suggestion that if JC got into government the oath of Allegiance would be modified to suit them.
Derives from the various factions within Republicanism in which some have reached an acceptance over the institutions of the state in both the Republic and Northern Ireland
There are still strands of Republicanism that refuse to recognise the institutions of the Republic of Ireland,(because they derive from legislation from Westminster) (They would hold the view the only legitimate legislature for "Ireland" was the first and Second Dail created by SF Candidates in the 1918 UK General Election refusing to go Westminster and holding their own gathering in Dublin in 1919, with the second never dissolving itself.
On the basis of these views, republican legitimatism argued that:
all Irish parliaments convened since the Second Dáil in 1921 are illegitimate as they were established by a piece of British legislation, the Government of Ireland Act 1920
The First Dáil passed a resolution which provided that if enemy action ever succeeded in preventing the Dáil from functioning democratically, the Army (IRB/IRA etc) should have the power to proclaim an Emergency Government;
the 64 TDs who voted for the Anglo Irish Treaty in 1922 had violated their oath to the Irish Republic and abdicated their legitimacy;
The Second Dáil had never formally dissolved itself.
So thus you had the various IRAs created seeking to "legitimise" themselves by getting the blessing of sole surviving members of the First and Second Dail
indeed till the 1980s, Provisional SF practised absenteeism from Leinster House.
 
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Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
Basically a refusal to acknowledge the authority of HM Government and Westminster over Northern Ireland. Though there is the suggestion that if JC got into government the oath of Allegiance would be modified to suit them.
Derives from the various factions within Republicanism in which some have reach an acceptance over the institutions
There are still strands of Republicanism that refuse to recognise the institutions of the Republic of Ireland, indeed till the 1980s Provisional SF practised absenteeism from Leinster House.

I was interested to here this, as it looked like a way they could have disproportionate power to shape Ireland's destiny north and south but appeared uninterested in doing so. I case of having to live amongst it to (fully?) understand it.(y)
 
I was interested to here this, as it looked like a way they could have disproportionate power to shape Ireland's destiny north and south but appeared uninterested in doing so. I case of having to live amongst it to (fully?) understand it.(y)
They are merely one party,one view. There are many shades of green and indeed orange on this island
 

Ashtree

Member
That my friend is the art of politics,it's all about the votes

Indeed. The Shinners (unfortunately :banghead:) are sharp political operators, and get their vote gathering strategy pretty much on the money at election time.
Having pretty much cornered the nationalist vote in NI, their cause has been greatly helped by Arlene Foster, who is just about the most inept politician the unionist could possibly have found to elect as leader. There’s every possibility Arlene could be the Shinners greatest asset at the next election if she is still leader of the DUP.
 
Ditto for Ian Paisley founding and leading the DUP in earlier years, the greatest propaganda/recruiting tool the Republicans ever possessed.
Of course they made sure to murder Edgar Graham, who would have been a real intellectual and political threat, which , even I, a naive student, recognised at the time of the murder.
Marcus
p.s.
getting a bit political I appreciate.
 

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
If Scotland eventually gets a successful vote for independence in the next few years which is looking increasingly likely. Do any of you think NI would also follow them.:scratchhead:
 

yin ewe

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Co Antrim
If Scotland eventually gets a successful vote for independence in the next few years which is looking increasingly likely. Do any of you think NI would also follow them.:scratchhead:

Scotland would be voting to become a completely independent country. NI would be voting to stay part of the UK or become a part of the Republic of Ireland. The shinners would never accept a vote for NI independence and I can't see many unionist voting to leave the UK unless Brexit is a disaster...…..
 
I don't understand the dup,s position on brexit. I can and have only seen brexit as a break up of the act of union. I can understand some reasons why but the price is far too high. They have by their stand and ill comments woke up middle class soft nationalist,who if they weren't pro union would of obstained from a border poll .
Nicola srurgen position before the last election on a 2nd Scottish referendum ultimately let the Tories have 11 very valuable seats.timing is e everything. I know we strive for change but thus is one time when the union was stronger with the status quo and remain
I think they live too much in the past. Democracy is not all it's supposed to be. It's the will of the people we are told but it's not. It's simply 50% + 1.
 
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Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
I don't understand the dup,s position on brexit. I can and have only seen brexit as a break up of the act of union. I can understand some reasons why but the price is far too high. They have by their stand and ill comments woke up middle class soft nationalist,who if they weren't pro union would of obstained from a border poll .
Nicola srurgen position before the last election on a 2nd Scottish referendum ultimately let the Tories have 11 very valuable seats.timing is e everything. I know we strive for change but thus is one time when the union was stronger with the status quo and remain
I think they live too much in the past. Democracy is not all it's supposed to be. It's the will of the people we are told but it's not. It's simply 50% + 1.

You are right that timing is everything. I would think the SNP pushing too quickly this time would potently end in the same result they had previously. Folk need a bit of space post Brexit to see what the deal is and how it's going to work for them. Eighteen to 24 months and the picture should be clearer as to jumping ship or not is a worthwhile idea. This may also be the best time for Ms Sturgeon, if it's going to be really serious it will be pretty obvious by then.
 

yin ewe

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Co Antrim
You are right that timing is everything. I would think the SNP pushing too quickly this time would potently end in the same result they had previously. Folk need a bit of space post Brexit to see what the deal is and how it's going to work for them. Eighteen to 24 months and the picture should be clearer as to jumping ship or not is a worthwhile idea. This may also be the best time for Ms Sturgeon, if it's going to be really serious it will be pretty obvious by then.

I'd say it will need 5 years minimum to tell if Brexit will be a success or not, if there is a deal then we will still be in transition period for 2 years? Might be better going for a referendum sooner rather than later, just in case Brexit is a roaring success:whistle:.
 

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
I'd say it will need 5 years minimum to tell if Brexit will be a success or not, if there is a deal then we will still be in transition period for 2 years? Might be better going for a referendum sooner rather than later, just in case Brexit is a roaring success:whistle:.

IMO it potently will be a roaring success if handled sufficiently badly, but only for the likes of JRM, BoJo and the various swamp dwellers that have taken Russian baksheesh to cause disruption in the west.
 

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