Is bagged fert a waste of time................... AND MONEY?

[davieh3350]

But my point is that in my area, bags of N get spun around every year and I feel I have a like for like comparison which shows it makes little or no difference. Something I had always suspected. Maybe on new plants but on these old pastures, has anyone ever been brave enough to just not bother? Soil + Sun + Rain = Grass.

Soil+sun+rain+dung+management =grass

 

[Goweresque]

Maybe using fertiliser is like the old saying - 'Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted, I just don't know which half'?

 

[Grassman]

If you mow fields every year without fertiliser a gradual decline in yields will result.
You can miss an odd year but in general keep feeding it.

 

[Kevtherev]

Yes crop off
Feed it

 

[Exfarmer]

Years ago , spreading fertiliser with an old full width JD fertiliser spreader it was very easy to see the yield advantage of the application.
We used to leave plenty of trial strips , some a few inches, occasionally a few feet which gave a very instant visual demonstration of the benfit of our activity.
Sadly the advent of spinner , wagtail spreaders meant this lesson was forgotten as application went from one hedge to another

 

[neilo]

I don't understand why people put p & k on grazing land? It all goes back onto the ground through the animals eating it? I just use N.

That depends on where your indices are. I'm told that there's no need to apply K to grazing ground as long as your indices are 2 (a lot of mine are at 1), and a small amount of P is removed by grazing, so maintenance P dressings are worthwhile to prevent reduction over time.
If my potash indices were higher, I would still be going through with triple super if something, to top phosphates up.

This is all in the absence of muck to spread, which would replace a lot/all of that if it were available.

 

[neilo]

I grow as much as i use to. It just grows later and more evenly. When the clovers growing well and fixing N mid summer is awesome for growth.

As a conventional farmer, also growing clover, I also get lots of mid/late summer growth. An early light dressing of N feeds the grass before it's warm enough to get the clover going.

 

[Robw54]

The guy rotated them pretty well. This was a 5 or so acre field, half I rented to him and he put bagged on it, half I kept back and said I may fence off but never got around to it. So his sheep ran all around it. The differences were the bagged on his half and the growing birds on mine in Salatin style 'tractors'. These left a trail of huge growth, as you would expect. It's the bits where I hadn't put anything that I was interested in when compared to the rest of the field which had a good coating of bagged. I could seriously see no different and they were grazed the same and given plenty of recovery between grazings.

I suspect over-seeding will be the route for me as I want to introduce more species and it'll probably be done casually over time, using animals to tread it in. I also think there is something in planting out a paddock of something you want to broadcast, let it go to seed and then let a few cows in.

You will get approx 2x the grass with a dose of N all things being equal. It's been a few good grassy years and biggest factor is rain at the right time and sun. If you're paying a contractor for full baling ops it will pay you to fert. If you don't need the extra grass don't bother. Grass can look the same but it will be thicker in the base with fert. If you have footpaths it's a good way to keep people off the field in early spring as the grass will be well away.

 

[Sid]

As a conventional farmer, also growing clover, I also get lots of mid/late summer growth. An early light dressing of N feeds the grass before it's warm enough to get the clover going.

You will but i can do that with dirty water. As you know too much early N will hold the clover back

 

[wasted years]

I just wondered, being new to all this. Last year I rented half my flat field to a guy and he put on what? 100kg? Does that sound anywhere near? Anyway, he did and then he did it again in mid summer. I had intended to fence off my bit which I rear chooks on but never got around to it so half was given 2 doses and half wasn't. The chook manure could have had an effect but after much looking at it with my eyeballs, I could see no difference in growth given that his sheep had run the whole field. In fact, the bit at my end looked better.

I just wonder how many farmers are throwing bags of 20:10:10 onto old pasture and actually getting no benefit at all.

It's the field that is the problem not the fert.

 

[JD-Kid]

hard question if low in some things there may be a responce
N will work at low PH and low P but thats about the only thing if Ph is low fix that frist then P etc etc
will be of more use
there are lots of reports of guys cutting back on ferts or magic low rate ferts and just mineing there soils it may work for a year or 2 but it will start to show up quickly in harder years
seen it in dryer years areas with better fert use holds on better and gets growing faster once rains come
if haveing muck to spread it will work too end of the day N is N dose not matter if in 5hit or prills

 

[Sid]

The trouble with soluble fertiliser is the plant doesn't have to root it out. Therefore the plant is more drought prone.
You need slow release ferts like muck to give the soil something to feed on to then feed the plant. We do not know enough about feeding the largest living thing on our farms. The Soil.

 

[neilo]

The trouble with soluble fertiliser is the plant doesn't have to root it out. Therefore the plant is more drought prone.
You need slow release ferts like muck to give the soil something to feed on to then feed the plant. We do not know enough about feeding the largest living thing on our farms. The Soil.

Ummm, the Nitrates in muck are water soluble too, that's why they leach out and NVZ's get introduced. Whilst I agree that muck will give a slower release than bagged fert (which is not always a good thing), it is still in a water soluble form.
The OM in muck will feed soil organisms, but that's about the only component.

 

[JD-Kid]

The trouble with soluble fertiliser is the plant doesn't have to root it out. Therefore the plant is more drought prone.
You need slow release ferts like muck to give the soil something to feed on to then feed the plant. We do not know enough about feeding the largest living thing on our farms. The Soil.

yep alot to learn on soils and how to make the most of it with out wrecking it we seem to forget alot of the past cock ups with dust bowls etc
had a seed guy out today and lernt alot on some things soil covers etc better use of plants etc cover crops in grazeing systems etc to build up soils etc

 

[Sid]

Ummm, the Nitrates in muck are water soluble too, that's why they leach out and NVZ's get introduced. Whilst I agree that muck will give a slower release than bagged fert (which is not always a good thing), it is still in a water soluble form.
The OM in muck will feed soil organisms, but that's about the only component.

Why is fym allowed to be spread in NVZ because its slow release
http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/adlib/defra/content.aspx?id=2RRVTHNXTS.88UF90DE8XRAN

 

[Kevtherev]

Smack some lime on bit of fibrophos then DD some new grass and clover in

 

[Robw54]

You will see I have adopted the Boss style of question writing. It is very nice.

So. Is it? On PP that has never seen a seed or plough or harrow for 50 years. Somebody tell me why I need to lose a grand before I start to pop white power pellets over my fields?

It's a scam innit?

Do you need the extra grass? You could spend the grand buying in. Forage stocks round us are plentiful due to a few good years and can be bought below COP. Of course one wet summer and a bad winter could change all that.

 

[neilo]

Smack some lime on bit of fibrophos then DD some new grass and clover in

3 out of 4 ain't bad Kev. Get a lime spreader and you'll be able to do the whole job.
Might use a bit of diesel travelling though.

 

[Wooly]

Maybe we should all stop using bagged fertilizer, produce 25% less and suddenly make everyone realise how important food is !

Prices will rise rapidly and farmers will be appreciated .

Win, win all the way.

 

[Grassman]

Maybe we should all stop using bagged fertilizer, produce 25% less and suddenly make everyone realise how important food is !

Prices will rise rapidly and farmers will be appreciated .

Win, win all the way.

Very good idea....till your neighbour keeps fertilising and cashes in with the shortage and you have nothing to sell!.