Is biological farming quackery ?

Dan Powell

Member
Location
Shropshire
Thanks Andy, he has a wonderful time here, we wear sandals and robes, and chant OM OM as we go round the crops!

I presume that OM stands for Organic Matter...

Going back to the molasses idea for a minute - will this do the same job as products like bio-mulch? Or do you need the right microbes there in the soil to begin with?
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I presume that OM stands for Organic Matter...

Going back to the molasses idea for a minute - will this do the same job as products like bio-mulch? Or do you need the right microbes there in the soil to begin with?


think bio mulch is mostly humic acid ? and cheaper bought that way ?
 

Old John

Member
Location
N E Suffolk
I can't take Messrs Plumb or Kinsey seriously. I have read the book and even had a soil audit or two and find their findings contradictory. I think they are making a living with muck and magic, a bit of the Emperor's new clothes. Stick to what we KNOW, N P K S and plenty of organic matter. Bottles of magic potions, don't waste your money.
 

Andy Howard

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Ashford, Kent
I can't take Messrs Plumb or Kinsey seriously. I have read the book and even had a soil audit or two and find their findings contradictory. I think they are making a living with muck and magic, a bit of the Emperor's new clothes. Stick to what we KNOW, N P K S and plenty of organic matter. Bottles of magic potions, don't waste your money.
Problem is most people do not have access to large amounts of organic matter! also depends on the type of OM, if you use too much of one type you can soon end up with excesses.
 

Dan Powell

Member
Location
Shropshire
Problem is most people do not have access to large amounts of organic matter! also depends on the type of OM, if you use too much of one type you can soon end up with excesses.

Which is where I have problems. Too much chicken layer manure over many years = high P (index 5!) and high pH (7.3+). NPK pH soil testing and RB209 will not tell me enough to know if this really matters.

By getting a proper soil audit and doing tissue testing, I'm hoping to see if I can get things back in balance over the next few years. So far I've learnt that although my P index is through the roof, the actual availability isn't that good due to high pH.

This side of things I buy into. It's the other side of it I struggle with. I like my science peer reviewed and some of the biological products coming onto the market could be great or could be a total waste of money.

Then again fungicides have the full backing of the industry and they didn't do the job last year so who's to say what's worth the money...
 
I wouldn't get too into peer review on biological products because they sometimes they will work and sometimes not. I'd still feel you should be able to foster conditions on your own farm to optimise your own biological system especially with plenty of muck and animals and then possibly some additional help ie you have the best ingredients there already!

Sounds like another farm could do with the layers manure for a while...
 
I can't take Messrs Plumb or Kinsey seriously. I have read the book and even had a soil audit or two and find their findings contradictory. I think they are making a living with muck and magic, a bit of the Emperor's new clothes. Stick to what we KNOW, N P K S and plenty of organic matter. Bottles of magic potions, don't waste your money.

I think type of fertiliser does make a difference, some are better than others and some are a waste of money. So I do take what they say seriously. I think CEC does have an impact on nutrient availability but where I start to get less enamoured is in trying to balance base saturation beyond a couple of key nutrients (namely Ca/Mg and K) because I don't think the return is there for me on my farm. Plumbo does some good stuff and saves people a lot of money or better spent elsewhere.
 

Colin

Member
Location
Perthshire
For what it's worth I have started using glen side albrecht surveys on carrot ground. Use humaar which is their version of humic acid, not sure how much good it is doing or if it is the trace elements we are using extra that are doing the job. We have had good yields of carrots this year so I am going to carry on for another yer and see he it goes and trial some on barley or oats as well. Doing the whole programme with sop, kieserite etc is too pricey so Iick and choose which bits to give a go.
One question is they go n and on about needing Ca to balance the Mg then recommend using kieserite in the same field! WTF.
 
For what it's worth I have started using glen side albrecht surveys on carrot ground. Use humaar which is their version of humic acid, not sure how much good it is doing or if it is the trace elements we are using extra that are doing the job. We have had good yields of carrots this year so I am going to carry on for another yer and see he it goes and trial some on barley or oats as well. Doing the whole programme with sop, kieserite etc is too pricey so Iick and choose which bits to give a go.
One question is they go n and on about needing Ca to balance the Mg then recommend using kieserite in the same field! WTF.

Have you been splitting fields in half or leaving control plots to see what the difference is?
 

Steevo

Member
Location
Gloucestershire
Has anyone been down the biological route and decided against it?

Hear lots of talk from those who haven't yet been down that road, but very little from those who are long-term customers, and nothing from those who tried it but stopped. Can't say the same for many things in farming....
 
I think a lot of people must have tried Glenside or something and stopped after a while. We bought marinure for a few seasons. Its not that is bad or good, its generally good but biological product prices don't recognise the risk that something may or may not work in a given season and so really as farmers it seems to me to be better than we use our own resources to produce the best biological "feeds".
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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