Is composting dung worthwhile?

[David_A]

As the title suggests, what is the collective opinion on the above question. Form a nutrient and soil point of view, are we better to spread dung or to compost it properly first? Please ignore the costs associated with composting for the purposes of this exercise.

 

[mushnt grummmble]

Yes its better for the soil when its black rotten

 

[alpha 1]

As the title suggests, what is the collective opinion on the above question. Form a nutrient and soil point of view, are we better to spread dung or to compost it properly first? Please ignore the costs associated with composting for the purposes of this exercise.

Would have to think it would be better middend properly and let rot for a year or so to rot,the way it used to be done.Make sure the wind's blowing away from my place before u spread it though lol.

 

[Brisel]

Yes:

Less pathogens & weed seeds - one of the biggest plus points IMO. What would a blackgrass seed spread cost from imported straw?
Better more concentrated bulk with higher nutrient value/tonne

No:

Why deprive the soil worms the job of breaking it down?
Leaching of nutrients out of the heap. The juice is pretty toxic.
EA paperwork & not being able to use that patch of land again for muck storage for 3 years. Better to get it used quickly
Carbon loss. Better to have 20 t/ha of light stuff than 14 t/ha of rotted material
Volatilisation of ammonia, urea - that's much of the nutrient value gone as you load it into the spreader!

Just food for thought. I'm sure there are lots more points I have forgotten.

 

[Dan Powell]

Interesting thread. I think it's worth it, but it can be difficult to do properly. Needs turning plenty and needs lots of space as piles shouldn't be too big.

At a guess, if there is a high enough C:N ratio in the original muck then there shouldn't be too much loss of N in the composting process. You won't lose a lot of P and K unless there is a lot of run off.

I don't do it, but I want to when I figure out where and how. If you are ploughing it down, it's not worth composting, just bung it on and put it under asap.

 

[shakerator]

Depends on the feedstock that generated said dung.
I.e the more intensive / concentrate the more ammonia and the greater the incentive to prevent losses ....inject, incorporate in its raw form, but from a soil health pov ( planning horizon x years?) compost far superior IMHO

 

[David_A]

My thoughts are similar to Brisel. For the worms to do the most good and to minimise volatilisation I would think it best to incorporate the dung into the top couple of inches. I have been struggling to find strong data that shows what is actually lost in the composting process. What is the analysis of the final compost compared to the raw material analysis?

 

[hairy]

Do you want to make proper compost or just well rotted fym there is a difference in proper compost you need to add some clay topsoil to hold onto the nutrients it needs turning and water added checking the carbon dioxide checked if its too high it will kill the good bacteria . Done correctly you can turn raw fym into good compost in 7 weeks
we used the CMC controlled microbile composting

 

[Andyrob]

Have seen a customer now apply as fresh as possible in spring as soon as he can travel dung and then run disks over the top to get in in top few inches asap

He said himself has seen a healthier soil from it

 

[Henery]

I like to tip muck in long rows, easier to turn. When I can get it we mix poultry litter into the windrows. Needs turning 5 or 6 times to do a good job. Not easy in a wet time. Possible jipob for a 360 when I get one bought.
We only ever surface incorporate, after it's been turned a few times it spreads and mixes in so much better .
Doesn't take long to turn piles and once it's been moved a time or two there is hardly any stink.

 

[Dan Powell]

Do you want to make proper compost or just well rotted fym there is a difference in proper compost you need to add some clay topsoil to hold onto the nutrients it needs turning and water added checking the carbon dioxide checked if its too high it will kill the good bacteria . Done correctly you can turn raw fym into good compost in 7 weeks
we used the CMC controlled microbile composting

Interesting that you add topsoil - not heard of that before.

Please translate CMC controlled microbile composting for the layman. Is it an expensive system? Any pictures?

 

[former farmer]

I seem to remember that at Agric College, a good while back, they said that the market gardeners would never add long straw muck to their soils. Though all the market gardeners would be on Grade 1 soils, the demands of starting small seeded crops meant they had to be meticulous about their soil preparation.

 

[The Son]

As far as i am concerned it is doing nothing for you, your soil and crop stuck in a heap leaching nutrients, get it on asap.

 

[hairy]

Hi Dan if you google cmc composting and humus management you will read all about it yes its not a cheap method of composting but if you get it right it is magic stuff

 

[Simon C]

Hi Dan if you google cmc composting and humus management you will read all about it yes its not a cheap method of composting but if you get it right it is magic stuff

@hairy thanks for the info on cmc. Do you use the bran based microbial starter, it seems to be just bacterial, no mention of fungi.

 

[Dan Powell]

Hi Dan if you google cmc composting and humus management you will read all about it yes its not a cheap method of composting but if you get it right it is magic stuff

Seems pretty labour intensive. How much bigger are the benefits compared to ordinary aerobic windrow composting.

On a side note, how much do these tractor drawn windrow turners cost?

 

[Brisel]

Self propelled is over £100k according to my commercial compost supplier.

 

[martian]

Seems pretty labour intensive. How much bigger are the benefits compared to ordinary aerobic windrow composting.

On a side note, how much do these tractor drawn windrow turners cost?
View attachment 109674

I've been trying to get a quote for the smallest tractor operated one, but they don't seem keen ...
To answer OP, I'm sure composting is worthwhile, but we've never really tried it properly here. We spread a fair bit of FYM and I feel we're not getting much benefit from it, certainly not in the first year. Having heard Elaine Ingham (there's been a fair bit of chat on here about her course) I am more convinced of the benefit of well made compost. It has much less to do with the nutrient value (in terms of basic NPK etc) so much as encouraging all the bacteria and fungi and other bugs that make up a healthy soil food web which allows your crops/grass to make full use of the tonnes of free fertiliser that is locked up in the soil and in particular encouraging the mycorhizzal fungi to form associations with plant roots.
As a result I'm keen to get composting this year if I can find, or build, a cheap turner.

 

[Clive]

I learnt a few things about composing dung last week in Romania

will start a thread when I get chance but only just home and tired now ! - there is a lot we can learn for "peasants" who farm more like we did maybe 6 generations ago ! and not just compost

 

[Tom Sewell]

Clive I'm learning that cover crop roots and my army of worms are the most underrated tools on my farm.

Let nature sort it out! Keep costs low and don't buy more stuff to do what biology can and will do if you just let it!

See you next week at Stoneleigh?