Is Defra reckless and short sighted cutting Farm BPS payments and replacing with lower production environmental whilst the third world starve?

[steveR]

1) Defra had it put into their heads - by farmers - that there are 'good' ways of farming and 'bad' ways of farming. They thus set out to design SFI standards that would encourage the good and discourage the bad.
They have now come to realise, late in the day but just in time, that there are not in fact 'good' ways and 'bad' ways, but rather there are different ways. Thus they are trying to rewrite the standards, which is a good thing, but because they now find themselves up against a politically imposed time frame they are rushing a job that cannot be rushed. Hence the dogs breakfast the SFI currently resembles.
Any farmer - and you know who you are - who has made it their business to go around slagging off how others choose to farm, is directly responsible for this mess.

2) @Janet Hughes Defra came on here and invited you all to take part in what she called 'co-design'. That is to say, you set out what ELMS needs to look like for it to work for you and your farming system.
And what have you all done in response ? Tens of thousands of posts bellyaching about what ELMS/ SFI looks like. A small handful of posts actually saying what it could and should look like. If you can't say what the SFI standards need to look like for your business, how the hell are Defra meant to know ?
You have all wasted the opportunity to use co-design. At the 11th hour, pack up with the whingeing and make some constructive suggestions.

I will beg to differ on the "co-design" aspect. I am now far from convinced that this was much more than lip service to an idea... Gut instinct is that DEFRA already knew exactly where they wanted to go with ELMS.

I have sent a few ideas in the DEFRA direction, albeit nothing as erudite as your musings and proposals and heard nothing in response other than Janet on here. Also offered my ideas and thoughts to DEFRA, as suggested repeatedly by Janet and other DEFRA wallahs.... still waiting in anticipation of involvement!

 

[Vader]

1) Defra had it put into their heads - by farmers - that there are 'good' ways of farming and 'bad' ways of farming. They thus set out to design SFI standards that would encourage the good and discourage the bad.
They have now come to realise, late in the day but just in time, that there are not in fact 'good' ways and 'bad' ways, but rather there are different ways. Thus they are trying to rewrite the standards, which is a good thing, but because they now find themselves up against a politically imposed time frame they are rushing a job that cannot be rushed. Hence the dogs breakfast the SFI currently resembles.
Any farmer - and you know who you are - who has made it their business to go around slagging off how others choose to farm, is directly responsible for this mess.

2) @Janet Hughes Defra came on here and invited you all to take part in what she called 'co-design'. That is to say, you set out what ELMS needs to look like for it to work for you and your farming system.
And what have you all done in response ? Tens of thousands of posts bellyaching about what ELMS/ SFI looks like. A small handful of posts actually saying what it could and should look like. If you can't say what the SFI standards need to look like for your business, how the hell are Defra meant to know ?
You have all wasted the opportunity to use co-design. At the 11th hour, pack up with the whingeing and make some constructive suggestions.

No its a mess because your tree hugger mates and anti farming mates get their point across as those views suit Princess nut nuts agenda

 

[DrWazzock]

I don’t really want subsidies. I just want some reassurance that output prices aren’t going to collapse. Not sure how that can be achieved but it would help if there was an appreciation in the U.K. that food prices do need to rise a bit and the profits need to fed back to producers so we can invest in our businesses. Seeing veg at 1p a pack boils my pee really. It denigrates producers to serf status and devalues food generally.
There also needs to be an appreciation from regulators that we need as few costly obstacles in our path as possible. Our own leaders need to understand this rather than keep adding “voluntary” schemes that add nothing but cost.
That’s all I ask really. Not subsidies, nor sympathy, just a fair deal, less of a negative attitude towards farming and real help with stuff like badgers and TB.

 

[DrWazzock]

Food prices aren’t “going through the roof” they are just slowly catching up with prices in the rest of the economy. To have kept pace with Council Tax, wheat ought to be about £600 per tonne today.

 

[Tarw Coch]

1) Defra had it put into their heads - by farmers - that there are 'good' ways of farming and 'bad' ways of farming. They thus set out to design SFI standards that would encourage the good and discourage the bad.
They have now come to realise, late in the day but just in time, that there are not in fact 'good' ways and 'bad' ways, but rather there are different ways. Thus they are trying to rewrite the standards, which is a good thing, but because they now find themselves up against a politically imposed time frame they are rushing a job that cannot be rushed. Hence the dogs breakfast the SFI currently resembles.
Any farmer - and you know who you are - who has made it their business to go around slagging off how others choose to farm, is directly responsible for this mess.

2) @Janet Hughes Defra came on here and invited you all to take part in what she called 'co-design'. That is to say, you set out what ELMS needs to look like for it to work for you and your farming system.
And what have you all done in response ? Tens of thousands of posts bellyaching about what ELMS/ SFI looks like. A small handful of posts actually saying what it could and should look like. If you can't say what the SFI standards need to look like for your business, how the hell are Defra meant to know ?
You have all wasted the opportunity to use co-design. At the 11th hour, pack up with the whingeing and make some constructive suggestions.

Simple solution would be to abandon implementing SFI until they are confident they’ve got it right.

 

[delilah]

No its a mess because your tree hugger mates and anti farming mates get their point across as those views suit Princess nut nuts agenda

Ah, it was Friends of the Earth put it into Defra's head that we need to DD ? And Greenpeace persuaded them that we need to measure SOM ? Bollox. Farmers have brought this on themselves.

 

[DRC]

1) Defra had it put into their heads - by farmers - that there are 'good' ways of farming and 'bad' ways of farming. They thus set out to design SFI standards that would encourage the good and discourage the bad.
They have now come to realise, late in the day but just in time, that there are not in fact 'good' ways and 'bad' ways, but rather there are different ways. Thus they are trying to rewrite the standards, which is a good thing, but because they now find themselves up against a politically imposed time frame they are rushing a job that cannot be rushed. Hence the dogs breakfast the SFI currently resembles.
Any farmer - and you know who you are - who has made it their business to go around slagging off how others choose to farm, is directly responsible for this mess.

2) @Janet Hughes Defra came on here and invited you all to take part in what she called 'co-design'. That is to say, you set out what ELMS needs to look like for it to work for you and your farming system.
And what have you all done in response ? Tens of thousands of posts bellyaching about what ELMS/ SFI looks like. A small handful of posts actually saying what it could and should look like. If you can't say what the SFI standards need to look like for your business, how the hell are Defra meant to know ?
You have all wasted the opportunity to use co-design. At the 11th hour, pack up with the whingeing and make some constructive suggestions.

Don’t think that’s fair at all. They had years and years worth of Data from schemes like HLS, all lost apparently, which would’ve proved what worked and how much they needed to pay for it.
How could they be so clueless as to expect us to go into schemes for peanuts. I was getting £125/140 acre for arable reversion 10 years ago, plus the BPS.
I have it on good authority from someone higher up, that the plan is to reduce the pot to what’s taken up ( very little), and say it was offered, but farmers obviously don’t need it. The plan all along if you ask me .

 

[Happy]

Big U turn needed!!

Won’t happen unless Boris gets the heave.

 

[delilah]

I have it on good authority from someone higher up, that the plan is to reduce the pot to what’s taken up ( very little), and say it was offered, but farmers obviously don’t need it.

Well, yes, if farmers can't be arsed to state what an SFI standard needs to look like to work for them, then they obviously don't need it.

 

[DRC]

Well, yes, if farmers can't be arsed to state what an SFI standard needs to look like to work for them, then they obviously don't need it.

I think they’ve deliberately confused everyone with all these standards . If it had been kept simple, or the same as mid tier, they would’ve got a much bigger up take . @Janet Hughes Defra has been told often enough. It’s like beating your head against a brick wall.

 

[delilah]

I think they’ve deliberately confused everyone with all these standards . If it had been kept simple, or the same as mid tier, they would’ve got a much bigger up take . @Janet Hughes Defra has been told often enough. It’s like beating your head against a brick wall.

Then everyone should find it simple to write such standards and submit them to Defra/ share on here. I have every sympathy for Janet, she has shown the patience of a saint with an industry that is completely incapable of making constructive input. Fecking whingeing farmers.

 

[Hilly]

To hell with the lot them , they can suck on Sitka spruce .

 

[Henarar]

To hell with the lot them , they can suck on Sitka spruce .

Old nut nuts can stick it where she likes

 

[Mark Hatton]

Just watched a piece on BBC news channel about the effects of COVID lockdowns in China, they are suggesting that the situation in Ukraine in relation to world food production will be a drop in the ocean compared to the very real possibility that China’s food production is being decimated by its zero Covid policy, if our government doesn’t have a serious re think on UK food production, quickly, there could be real problems next year.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Let them eat Trees!!!!!

no but they can be burnt to keep warm.

 

[Hilly]

Just watched a piece on BBC news channel about the effects of COVID lockdowns in China, they are suggesting that the situation in Ukraine in relation to world food production will be a drop in the ocean compared to the very real possibility that China’s food production is being decimated by its zero Covid policy, if our government doesn’t have a serious re think on UK food production, quickly, there could be real problems next year.

Good cant wait .

 

[Mwf]

 

[steveR]

View attachment 1030749

So, we are OK on beer and lamb chops. Two of the staple food groups....

 

[digger64]

Discuss.

On Jeremy Vine today most interesting and highly recommend.

Seems every caller in of the public was in favour of producing more food and becoming more self sufficient as a country...

Can't think our looming government policy is going too look to good in 6 months time?

I think Putin will end up killing more indirectly through fammine than bullets in Ukraine...

@Janet Hughes Defra

Let them eat Trees!!!!!

But BPS does not encourage productivity - it increases overheads/production costs and keeps unproductive businesses in control of the land/ resources availiable . If the government wants a big heap of affordable food it needs to reward the" doers/risk takers -not the hangers on and parasites " the emphasis needs to be on an acceptable price with acceptable costs and trading environment .

 

[digger64]

Old nut nuts can stick it where she likes

she probably does !