Is handling now permitted?

Roy Stokes

Member
Location
East Shropshire
Is he not just digging out stones that might spoil his finish ?

Most probable, however, that is the OP of this thread caught on camera, this is why his idea of marching around with a camera is very dangerous, the camera never lies however the evidence can be taken out of context or mis- read leading to penalties for ploughmen who don't deserve it.
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
Well done everyone! You have just given me much evidence as to why the stewards need to have cameras! And yes, I was trying to extract stones before finishing! However, what I was doing, was legal, you cant handle the ploughing ,right? Well then, that was unploughed ground I had been digging in. And there is a world of difference between that photo and this, Not least in the position held in the "governing body"!
 

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Tonym

Member
Location
Shropshire
Well done everyone! You have just given me much evidence as to why the stewards need to have cameras! And yes, I was trying to extract stones before finishing! However, what I was doing, was legal, you cant handle the ploughing ,right? Well then, that was unploughed ground I had been digging in. And there is a world of difference between that photo and this, Not least in the position held in the "governing body"!
I'm not sure about all this handling and gardening that people whinge about, but I do believe ploughmen should practice what they preach. Those who live in glass houses, should not throw stones.

Anybody recognise the ploughman in the picture, the one doing a bit of "gardening"!! It looks serious stuff, as he even has an audience watching him.

Comments please!!! View attachment 623150


Look like you already started digging Harry
 

Howard150

Member
Location
Yorkshire
I'm not sure about all this handling and gardening that people whinge about, but I do believe ploughmen should practice what they preach. Those who live in glass houses, should not throw stones.

Anybody recognise the ploughman in the picture, the one doing a bit of "gardening"!! It looks serious stuff, as he even has an audience watching him.

Comments please!!! View attachment 623150

Needs to take a leaf out of The Gospel according to Jimmy Chalmers (God rest him lovely lovely guy that he was) used to carry a few big stones around with him along with a bottle of water for making such occasional slip ups look natural! :D

Gobsmacked is all I can manage - especially after a quarter of a million words on the subject by the same author. SOP eat your heart out. Looks like they have fallen by the wayside as far as providing Stewards are concerned. :eek::eek::D:D

Few of us been had like that before. Me at 3 Counties. Furr holes hardly the ideal location to be photographed stood holding a fork. In my defence - mine was a Roman Fork!
 

Howard150

Member
Location
Yorkshire
Well done everyone! You have just given me much evidence as to why the stewards need to have cameras! And yes, I was trying to extract stones before finishing! However, what I was doing, was legal, you cant handle the ploughing ,right? Well then, that was unploughed ground I had been digging in. And there is a world of difference between that photo and this, Not least in the position held in the "governing body"!

Bit reminiscent of student ideaology / propaganda stickers from the sixties.
“Help the police - beat yourself up!”
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
I'm not sure about all this handling and gardening that people whinge about, but I do believe ploughmen should practice what they preach. Those who live in glass houses, should not throw stones.

Anybody recognise the ploughman in the picture, the one doing a bit of "gardening"!! It looks serious stuff, as he even has an audience watching him.

Comments please!!! View attachment 623150
Ok Fred, here is a comment. I am in fact doing nothing wrong. The hole in the unploughed land is evidence of that. Can I have your comments on the Photo I posted?
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
Most probable, however, that is the OP of this thread caught on camera, this is why his idea of marching around with a camera is very dangerous, the camera never lies however the evidence can be taken out of context or mis- read leading to penalties for ploughmen who don't deserve it.
Quite so Roy. However, the photos can, unlike the stewards memory, be re-examined, Freds post is a good example, on the face of it caught dead to rights, but on closer examination, it can be shown that no offence was committed.
I stick to my point that serial handlers should not be given the implied acceptance of their activities by being invited to plough in a Judges seminars as demonstrators.
 

Roy Stokes

Member
Location
East Shropshire
Quite so Roy. However, the photos can, unlike the stewards memory, be re-examined, Freds post is a good example, on the face of it caught dead to rights, but on closer examination, it can be shown that no offence was committed.
I stick to my point that serial handlers should not be given the implied acceptance of their activities by being invited to plough in a Judges seminars as demonstrators.

Only you could use that photo to support your argument Harry, take this scenario, a competitor takes a photo of you down the last run with fork in hand and also submits a complaint against you, all viewed and recorded from 2 plots away cross ways to the ploughing, what is the committee to do, they would have no idea of the stone, you would be shafted, which you would deserve only on the basis that you suggested the ridiculous camera idea in the first place, if taking photo's and shopping fellow competitors as you have suggested many times became the norm it would create more arguments than you have had on this forum
 

Howard150

Member
Location
Yorkshire
Only you could use that photo to support your argument Harry, take this scenario, a competitor takes a photo of you down the last run with fork in hand and also submits a complaint against you, all viewed and recorded from 2 plots away cross ways to the ploughing, what is the committee to do, they would have no idea of the stone, you would be shafted, which you would deserve only on the basis that you suggested the ridiculous camera idea in the first place, if taking photo's and shopping fellow competitors as you have suggested many times became the norm it would create more arguments than you have had on this forum

From the picture it looks as very much as though the stone has been fouled 3 or 4 feet back from where the “alleged offence” is taking place. What’s more to the point is that it looks as though - despite having fouled an ironstone cobble - Harry has carried on regardless and then walked back to rectify things, very much in the way he did whilst setting his rig at the previous years Sarn match. The time to rectify such as this is as it happens with the plough lifted up at the scene. No contention then as to what’s going on, with the added bonus of not robbing your sole furrow for a couple of yards.

Sorry Harry but the Zealots from a couple of plots away, fired up by your rhetoric, would have a field day. Let’s just resort to the natural order of things. Let the organisers do the organising, the judges do the judging and the stewards - not the zealots, do the stewarding.
 
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Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
David, Roy, please do look at things properly. All there is there, is a photo of a man carrying a fork. Like it or not, thats it.Fork is not in the ground, or on it. Hole is in unploughed land, which is legal, though then there is no evidence of the fork having made it.
David,regarding the previous years match, your memory is even more selective, I presume your referring to the time my plough jumped out of the ground. That day, things happened so quickly that I had no time to stop, the plough was out and back in before I could react. I did go and look for said stone, in case it was still in the way of the next run, no crime there, and I was entitled to pull it up, and put it by the damage to show the judges what had happened.Rectify things? Just how could that be achieved? Perhaps I should have gone up to the headland, ploughed out a bit too far, and carried the end furrows down and used them as a patch.
All the vitriol being poured over my head leads me to believe that perhaps some form of real enforcement is not quite so welcome in some quarters.The efforts being made here to intimidate myself, could be used to do similar to any steward. If said steward had a photograph. his position would be much stronger.
 
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Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
Rotavator for that finish as long as it got kV badge on it
Why would I have needed a Rotavator? The photo shows the green furrow was to size, and standing next to a shallow "empt" which left plenty of soil for the moulder.I dont know how a Rotavator would have handled the amount of stone in this land, cemented in place as it was by the hard and dry conditions
 

Roy Stokes

Member
Location
East Shropshire
The efforts being made here to intimidate myself, could be used to do similar to any steward. If said steward had a photograph. his position would be much stronger.

Crying foul yet again Harry, I seem to remember we have been here before with you dreaming up threats of possible physical violence on the match field, just accept my scenario as presented above could and would happen leading to much more argument and resentment than there ever is now, and you also need to accept that whether gardening is or isn't overlooked by the match organizer, the all important results would not change much
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
Indeed your scenario certainly would happen, no argument at all there. Mine ,however could also take place, in that the photo would be available for further examination, by people with a less slanted view than other competitors, which would balance things.
In your area the handling may not be having any real effect, down here the story is different, the two major offenders work as a team,one distracts the steward while the other plays sandcastles! And handling is not all they get up to,plot markers have been known to take a walk for example and their efforts do have a bearing on results, and I have heard the elder being abusive to a judge who had marked him down at a previous match.
 

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