Is Ian Potter going to kill off local and County shows

[Farmer1001]

Provocative journos tend to get more of an ear than those who aren`t. IP has become more and more provocative as this gets him recognition, the disappointment is that he is doing it by criticising the industry that has been very good to him over the years. I am all for asking honest questions but you only need to read the weekly bulletin to realise some buyers/processors get ripped to shreds and some never get touched? Shame he has

Over the years potter has a good track record for accuracy.
He has seen below the above mentioned iceberg and wants it stopped for very good reason.
Remember this is a public forum

absolutely agree the article subject is not good and needs dealing with. But would like to see a level of balance from the journo. Brit dairy farmers do massive good so no shortage of material for a positive story rather than the daily "dairy bashing" that goes on.

 

[Henarar]

surly they can tell if this has been done ?
do some random testing and throw out any caught doing it ?

 

[bigw]

I agree to a point with what you are saying @stablegirl but a lot of show cows have little relevance to commercial dairy farming and I don't agree that the public seeing them is necessarily a good thing. At agriscot a few years ago I was horrified at some of the animals that were out on show frail thin animals that looked so full of milk that they couldn't walk properly. That said though there were some lovely balanced animals mostly the red and whites.

 

[upnortheast]

surly they can tell if this has been done ?
do some random testing and throw out any caught doing it ?

Some shows have a vet with a scanner checking a number of cows (often 1st / 2nd prize winners ) eg GYS

 

[meekers]

In my opinion, it is the showmen who are killing off the shows. I personally have no problem with sealing teats, but that is just the surface of what is a very delicate issue. There is far more involved in showing cows than just clipping, washing and bagging up cows these days. There is months of work before hand- some of it legit, some of it not. I am not going to go into details on a public forum. I love showing cows at local shows and continue to do so, however there is an increasing gap between the local farmers taking cows to shows and cows that are professionally fitted. It is no longer enough to have a good cow to win a show- you must also have the skillset to prepare and fit the cow for the show.
We cannot compete on the European and world stage without this level of showmanship, but I do feel it is coming at a cost to our own UK shows.

 

[Bipper]

When Agriscot announced they were going to do random checks several "big boys" boycotted and haven't been back. What does that tell you?

Arguably if you took the false element out of showing there could be more exhibitors not less. Having been to local shows where teats have been set etc it doesn't encourage those who don't want to do that to come back.

Judges need to be stronger and refuse to place them, societies need to be stronger and ban repeat offenders. But they won't do that as they are all pals.

Some sheep breeds only allow washing, dairy should possibly go the sa,e way, no baby oil, fake tails stc, just wash the cow and show her. Then you know who is the best cow not the best fitter.

 

[jimmer]

We would have cows here worthy of a rosette . As would many other farmers . But unless she is pedigree, tarted up and quite possibly fiddled about with to enhance her , the first prize sash is inevitably going to be elusive
Wrong really in my opinion. We have some stunning jersteins here but will we ever see a class for mongrels?

 

[borderterribles]

We would have cows here worthy of a rosette . As would many other farmers . But unless she is pedigree, tarted up and quite possibly fiddled about with to enhance her , the first prize sash is inevitably going to be elusive
Wrong really in my opinion. We have some stunning jersteins here but will we ever see a class for mongrels?

Lots of local shows have classes now for cross-breds/commercial dairy cows.
Re the OP, no , of course he won't, the beef and sheep sections have hardly ever been stronger, but far as the dairy classes are concerned, then I think we could well see the end of competitive exhibiting of dairy cattle at lower levels.

 

[O'Reilly]

I have shown cows for around 10 years now at local county and national level, with moderate success.

I just wanted to make a point or two, the world of showing takes in a broad spectrum of exhibitors, just like any sample of society, there are good and bad amongst them. They have a few things in common, one of them is they are competitive, some times overly so.

The other thing they have in common is they LOVE their cows and i genuinely mean that, you may say how can they when they are doing some of the things mentioned above, but they do i havent met a single person at a show that doesnt care for there animals like family. Im sure like you all do.

There is a serious lack of leadership on this matter and it does need to be sorted, im not saying its ok but im saying its very difficult to fix.

You must be careful what you wish for though, shows are in a major decline, like the industry as a whole, but it is the only place many members of the general public see cows up close each year. ( i know you may say they are not the cows you want them to see). The exhibitors work hard explaining to the public about there cows and they have great pride in them and people are really interested. Its a great shop window and if you kick the dog when its already down too hard there will be no one left to show at all.

Even if they are not the sort of cows you want to milk, they do fill a role with the public and serve all of you as milk producers. I appreciate that all this good is destroyed by every bad headline, and hence i sgree something must be done. But just be careful what you wish for because it will be sad if it all ends and to the detrement of us all.

Just one final point, there is no mystical pot of money in showing any more, there is no huge financial benefit to it, showing is an expensive hobby, the best will break even.

I still don't understand why you need to seal a cows teats, or any of the other stuff, in order to explain to the public where their milk comes from. Its a funny sort of blackmail from the big show men, at a time when livestock farming itself is under threat (see the slaughter free milk thread). If you want to educate the public, have an area dedicated to that, don't try and confuse two different issues.

 

[borderterribles]

I still don't understand why you need to seal a cows teats, or any of the other stuff, in order to explain to the public where their milk comes from. Its a funny sort of blackmail from the big show men, at a time when livestock farming itself is under threat (see the slaughter free milk thread). If you want to educate the public, have an area dedicated to that, don't try and confuse two different issues.

As far as the "big show men" as you put it are concerned, showing has little or nothing to do with engaging with the public and our consumers. It's about herd ( or self) promotion. There has always been dubious practice in showing cattle, or showing anything for that matter and there always will be. A lot of these practices nowadays are because showmen/fitters are conforming to standards which are the norm abroad.
Local and County shows are unlikely to do anything about these dubious practices, as the stewards and judges are largely voluntary and it can get very nasty indeed( not to mention personally, legally expensive) when those accused of cheating are brought to book. They aren't up for it, and you can't blame them, can you?

 

[cowgirl95]

And what to producers do when the use Orbeseal ?

not superglue like the showmen

 

[cowgirl95]

the dairy cattle at the Yorkshire show are a disgrace especially the holsteins their skin is shaved which is a ridiculous impracticle practice and hardly any of them take part in the grand parade because they struggle to walk and the exhibitors refuse to expose them to the weather they are a joke

 

[jerseycowsman]

Potter has embarked on a crusade on the dairy showmen, is he right do you see any cruelty in these pampered cows ? Re the article in the Dairy Farmer.
Or has he just made too much off milk producers trading quota and has nothing better to do with his time ?

He is trying to stop people cheating, something for which honest showmen like myself back him for

 

[jerseycowsman]

We would have cows here worthy of a rosette . As would many other farmers . But unless she is pedigree, tarted up and quite possibly fiddled about with to enhance her , the first prize sash is inevitably going to be elusive
Wrong really in my opinion. We have some stunning jersteins here but will we ever see a class for mongrels?

There are classes for mongrels at royal Cornwall

 

[O'Reilly]

Some years ago, a cow called haresfoot Pamela I think, did very well at the dairy event (remember that?). She was shown as an Ayrshire, but I'm pretty sure was by a Holstein, albeit a red one, so crossbreds can do very well in shows at the top level.
Probably not jimmers jersteins though.

 

[Beef farmer]

There are classes for mongrels at royal Cornwall

Like the most mongreled mongrel?

 

[Princess Pooper]

Mongrel the judges would most like to put through their parlour?

 

[borderterribles]

As a Jersey breeder, I feel that I can't join in with the joshing about mongrels when we are in a situation where lots of "Jersey" bulls currently being promoted by semen companies in this country are throwing calves that are ineligible for registration as pedigree in the UK
The American Jersey Cattle Association ought to be re-named the American Jersey Crossbreed Association.

 

[jerseycowsman]

As a Jersey breeder, I feel that I can't join in with the joshing about mongrels when we are in a situation where lots of "Jersey" bulls currently being promoted by semen companies in this country are throwing calves that are ineligible for registration as pedigree in the UK
The American Jersey Cattle Association ought to be re-named the American Jersey Crossbreed Association.

I think in the latest US rankings the pure jerseys have retaken a lot of the top 10 places

 

[borderterribles]

I think in the latest US rankings the pure jerseys have retaken a lot of the top 10 places

Good, but when our breed society have to warn members that they need to check that the progeny of bulls that they may be using are eligible for registration in the herd book, it is a bad situation. In my opinion anyway