Is it worth lambing early anymore

[Tim W]

You must have much bigger farms up there. 2000 ewes is a big unit here, usually made up of several farms purchased over the years.

20 years time your 2000 ewe unit may seem small

 

[sherg]

You must have much bigger farms up there. 2000 ewes is a big unit here, usually made up of several farms purchased over the years.

We would be the same around here, a big farm in a ring fence would make 2000 ewe's manageable most of the year on your own spread over a few miles it would be very hard work

 

[Lovegoodstock]

Don't really know a lot about late light lamb job, but not everyones cup of tea but some of my ewe lamb, lambs go june / july, 10 - 12 weeks old, 14 -18 kilo , last year averaged just shy of 70 odd, think roughly 4.15 per k at that time of year, not a bad job. Rugby has buyers for light lambs regularly I gather. Probably not worth selling early may as few abattoirs have switched and you hope price creeps up, but whilst only early draw of small numbers I sell a few, creates interest and comparison for next draw, saves odd random single tup lamb reaching over 50 kilo when it will go lean when I don't creep lambs. Original point of is it worth lambing early? Do 550 feb to mid march, not sure if that's classed as early, but means can then lamb ewe lambs with no labour, remember a thread on here on lambing work, whats it worth? Well luckily last 2 years fed nowt to early ewes and never crept, so spreading lambing reduces labour costs to nil, never black and white with different areas and systems

 

[M-J-G]

Yes, electric ?

The ones you know may be different, but most arable farmers I know won't be arsed with stock at all, let alone having to fence land to keep it.
Maybe a generation ago they would, but not so much now.

They'd rather do a straw for dung deal or let out a cattle court.

 

[neilo]

The only way I could see early lambers fitting in, would be housed & pushed on to hit the Easter trade. Unless you've got access to very cheap ground, running early lambers out at a low stocking rate is not going to pay most years. If housed, the stocking rate over the year can be much higher, so output per acre can be much higher.

To my mind, you either lamb early (Dec/Jan) and push hard, or lamb later to match grass growth for your farm, and cut purchased feed inputs to the bone. Or some of both, but none between the two.

Mind, I've never farmed where the grass grows in Jan & Feb, which might create other opportunities.

 

[aled1590]

This has been done wherever the land is good enough to accommodate the bigger ewes, either that or the native sheep have been gradually improved by selective breeding. Unfortunately there are some places where it's pretty grim and only the smallest and hardiest can survive.

We graze up on the common, and wouldn't like to put anything other than the small welshy up there,good grazing is very sparce up there, mostly rock and gorse. But we end up with 35-37kg lamb at a push. God help these upland farmers around here with no lowland grazing, relied fully on the tir mynydd payments.

 

[tr250]

The only way I could see early lambers fitting in, would be housed & pushed on to hit the Easter trade. Unless you've got access to very cheap ground, running early lambers out at a low stocking rate is not going to pay most years. If housed, the stocking rate over the year can be much higher, so output per acre can be much higher.

To my mind, you either lamb early (Dec/Jan) and push hard, or lamb later to match grass growth for your farm, and cut purchased feed inputs to the bone. Or some of both, but none between the two.

Mind, I've never farmed where the grass grows in Jan & Feb, which might create other opportunities.

Yes the sheep need a bit of space in spring but when lambs are fat in May/June the sheep are shut up tight to allow cattle to graze the rest of summer

 

[goodevans]

nothing squirted down their neck ,nothing squirted down their back and nothing squirted into their neck and all this at 12-16 weeks old so less time to die ,whats not to like oh and you can sell their mums at a high

 

[unlacedgecko]

The ones you know may be different, but most arable farmers I know won't be arsed with stock at all, let alone having to fence land to keep it.
Maybe a generation ago they would, but not so much now.

They'd rather do a straw for dung deal or let out a cattle court.

This is where someone like me comes in. I for see such an arrangement being the future of my business. I don't think hill tack sheep will have enough margin for me in a post subsidy environment.

 

[Hilly]

You must have much bigger farms up there. 2000 ewes is a big unit here, usually made up of several farms purchased over the years.

Unreal mate, someof them 3k acre and have been since time began, mine is 1k but was just the out lying bit off another two brothers split years ago so it got halved, this is what limits the size we can become is the price of land nothing else.

 

[GTB]

Unreal mate, someof them 3k acre and have been since time began, mine is 1k but was just the out lying bit off another two brothers split years ago so it got halved, this is what limits the size we can become is the price of land nothing else.

Are these big units owned or tenanted? Very few farms tenanted in Wales. The problem here is that the bigger you get the more inefficient you are because it's practically impossible to get extra land that's adjoining so you end up spending too much time travelling and moving stock about. I'd give anything to have all the land we farm in one block. The cost of fuel and wear and tear on vehicles and machinery is eye watering. I've now come to the conclusion that less is more and am getting rid of off lying land, sheep tack and short term lets unless they're within a couple of miles.

 

[Hilly]

20 years time your 2000 ewe unit may seem small

It is in a way now, 20 years ago the 2000 ewe boys up here had 2-3 herds and wre big farmers, now they have no herds do it themselfs and are pretty ordinary size farm, 20 years ago my jaw hit the floor when i heard of a farmer with 200 cows, he had more men than you could shake a stick at and a full compliment of implements, 20 years down the line i have 200 cows single handed and just a few necessary implements, the big boys have 1k cows plus bought in stores ! the eu has done no one in this country any favours, it get big play number game or get out , been like under eu.

 

[Penmoel]

The only way I could see early lambers fitting in, would be housed & pushed on to hit the Easter trade. .

There is no "easter trade" now really is there, only for a very few at markets or to a local butcher.

We have lambed much later this year, mid march. Instead of one bunch in January and the rest in late March, sold the later lamber's and just one group, those that are here have had grass all the way since lambing . The January lamber's usually took all the grass before anything else had a chance.

Hope to get most of lambs away by end of July this year instead of lambs still here in December

 

[Hilly]

Are these big units owned or tenanted? Very few farms tenanted in Wales. The problem here is that the bigger you get the more inefficient you are because it's practically impossible to get extra land that's adjoining so you end up spending too much time travelling and moving stock about. I'd give anything to have all the land we farm in one block. The cost of fuel and wear and tear on vehicles and machinery is eye watering. I've now come to the conclusion that less is more and am getting rid of off lying land, sheep tack and short term lets unless they're within a couple of miles.

Both, tenants get next door added on if anyone packs up to make thm bigger they dont seem to want new tenants, owned dont get bigger because forestry out bid us all and the farms that do come up are to big ie 1-2k acre never ever any small bits ever, try out bidding forestry for shitty hill land that carrys shitty blackies they go to and sometimes over 3k acre and we talking hill land here cant drive a tracotor or anythng on it. as i say price of land limits us becoming nz nothing else.

 

[Penmoel]

That's the thing with your area @Hilly, you have the scope to do the numbers which in this area and much of the rest of the country we just don't have.

That was why we tried damned hard to buy up there ten or 12 years ago, was not to be.

 

[Penmoel]

Both, tenants get next door added on if anyone packs up to make thm bigger they dont seem to want new tenants, owned dont get bigger because forestry out bid us all and the farms that do come up are to big ie 1-2k acre never ever any small bits ever, try out bidding forestry for shitty hill land that carrys shitty blackies they go to and sometimes over 3k acre and we talking hill land here cant drive a tracotor or anythng on it. as i say price of land limits us becoming nz nothing else.

As you know it was forestry and development money that out bid us next door to you in 2005, just farming it cant compete

 

[Hilly]

As you know it was forestry and development money that out bid us next door to you in 2005, just farming it cant compete

Your not alone, everyfarm that has come up since is in trees, we managed 20 years ago to buy 90 acre away from home, only afforded it because couldnt get planning for trees as they had planted the other 9910 acres of the farm ! Now its totaly surrounded by stika and only good for dry stock. flys flys flys

 

[Hilly]

The ones you know may be different, but most arable farmers I know won't be arsed with stock at all, let alone having to fence land to keep it.
Maybe a generation ago they would, but not so much now.

They'd rather do a straw for dung deal or let out a cattle court.

Your probably right, i did think of trying to rent arable stubble and growing stubble turnips, the best i come up with for fencing was to erect clipex then when finished remove it and fence a field at home with it and repete every year, lot of expense and work for very little, have always bought store lambs but getting to the size of either pack it in or go big, pack it in is more attractive to me at the moment.

 

[neilo]

There is no "easter trade" now really is there, only for a very few at markets or to a local butcher.

We have lambed much later this year, mid march. Instead of one bunch in January and the rest in late March, sold the later lamber's and just one group, those that are here have had grass all the way since lambing . The January lamber's usually took all the grass before anything else had a chance.

Hope to get most of lambs away by end of July this year instead of lambs still here in December

A few weeks each side of Easter is still a decent enough trade every year, IME. I only sell my pedigree culls at that time, but have been considering doing some early commercials again. I would suggest that January lambing is too late most years, and that those sheep need to be housed right through, rather than stealing from later lambers. Too many times I've turned Jan/Feb lambers out, it's been a cold time and they stolen every blade of grass, required as much feed as housed sheep and not done as well as if they were in. Costs might be slightly higher indoors, but kg of lamb produced/ha is much higher due to a higher summer stocking rate. Dry ewes also make a good 'tidying up' mob on a sheep only farm as well, reducing worm burdens and only needing poorer grass for maintenance. I doubt it would pay to put a building up, particularly on a tenanted farm, but if you have the shed space, I suspect margins would be higher than using them to house beef cattle. It's also nice to have an indoor job to skulk off to when it's peeing down all day in January.

It's no different to how I see dairying. You either go all out with high input/high output and try to have the bulk on the Easter trade, or cut costs to the bone and accept lower prices, but a decent margin. The guys in the middle are the ones that squeezed, having a lot of the costs and only some of the returns.

 

[Hilly]

A few weeks each side of Easter is still a decent enough trade every year, IME. I only sell my pedigree culls at that time, but have been considering doing some early commercials again. I would suggest that January lambing is too late most years, and that those sheep need to be housed right through, rather than stealing from later lambers. Too many times I've turned Jan/Feb lambers out, it's been a cold time and they stolen every blade of grass, required as much feed as housed sheep and not done as well as if they were in. Costs might be slightly higher indoors, but kg of lamb produced/ha is much higher due to a higher summer stocking rate. Dry ewes also make a good 'tidying up' mob on a sheep only farm as well, reducing worm burdens and only needing poorer grass for maintenance. I doubt it would pay to put a building up, particularly on a tenanted farm, but if you have the shed space, I suspect margins would be higher than using them to house beef cattle. It's also nice to have an indoor job to skulk off to when it's peeing down all day in January.

It's no different to how I see dairying. You either go all out with high input/high output and try to have the bulk on the Easter trade, or cut costs to the bone and accept lower prices, but a decent margin. The guys in the middle are the ones that squeezed, having a lot of the costs and only some of the returns.

I agree but there is no easter trade now, this year was 10pkilo up for 1 week but was up from rock bottom !