Is JLR going to go down the same route as Rover did?

[Drillman]

There will never ever again be a "farmers" Defender. all landrover are interested in are premium SUVs. so that's what they will build. If they want a vehicle to sell to farmers, builders etc the parent company Tata will introduce something.

So far they seem happy to let ford, Isuzu, toyota etc have the run of the utility market in the u.k. at least.

Round here Most farmers have abandoned there defenders for much comfier double cabs that are just as good at towing the stock box. A visit to any mart car park will confirm that fact.

 

[SW1]

as far as I can read, the 3 day week plant make the Jag saloons, they're the ones not selling well. The LR side is still selling well, at the moment at least.

 

[Goweresque]

Swindon? Would that be the Pressed Steel Fisher factory which now makes bodies for Mini?

Thats the one. They used to press bodies and panels for Cowley and Abingdon (MG plant) back in the day. As a kid in the 70s I used to see trains taking the shells from Swindon along the Great Western mainline to Oxford, on open flat bed trucks, in all winds and weathers. No surprise BL cars were rust buckets..............

 

[Cowabunga]

[

as far as I can read, the 3 day week plant make the Jag saloons, they're the ones not selling well. The LR side is still selling well, at the moment at least.

It makes the Jaguar and Range Rover Velar.
It does seem that Jaguar are underperfoming. Their designs are quite uninspiring to me, especially the cabins of most models. More Rover than Jaguar looking.

 

[YorkshireAndrew]

[

It makes the Jaguar and Range Rover Velar.
It does seem that Jaguar are underperfoming. Their designs are quite uninspiring to me, especially the cabins of most models. More Rover than Jaguar looking.

Bland Rover .

 

[Nithsdale]

Removing my farmers cap, I take a wander round all the car stands at the likes of the Highland Show... I like looking over the higher end stuff (which I will never can afford but would potentially aspire to).
Why the f**k does anyone buy JLR vehicles?? They are ALL ugly and seriously over priced.

They have plotted their own downfall with too many bland products which compete against themselves.. how many models do LR/RR have currently - is it 7?! Constantly looking to bring out a model the market doesn't need. Exclusivity doesn't work when everyone has one!

As for Jag, they made their name selling big saloon cars. Nobody is buying them anymore. The writing has been on that wall for a while now. The few buyers left have moved 'up' to 'luxury 4x4s' like LR/RR (or other makes)...

 

[grainboy]

Not so sure.

And by the way the confidence in the sheep job is at an all time low if you look at the breeding sales returns in Hawes and other Autumn markets right now

What the Heck have sheep sales to do with JLR ?

 

[PSQ]

We have to realise that the Landy ‘s main market has always been the military , with farmers an add on.

The reason the Defender was killed off: it was no longer 'fit for purpose'.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jo...NvbS8&guce_referrer_cs=d5ysjV4RAvXfkzAxAu5R3w

Would you rather see your kids go to war in this:

Or this:

 

[Tarw Coch]

Thats the one. They used to press bodies and panels for Cowley and Abingdon (MG plant) back in the day. As a kid in the 70s I used to see trains taking the shells from Swindon along the Great Western mainline to Oxford, on open flat bed trucks, in all winds and weathers. No surprise BL cars were rust buckets..............

To be fair most cars of that era were rust buckets, due to family connections we always had fords and they were no better, I also recall the phrase Japanese rust buckets, I remember an uncle who had a Datsun that rusted badly.

Things have moved on, you just don’t see the rusty cars on the road that you used to, mothers 15 year old Rover will polish up almost as good as new, I remember dad paying £800 to have a Ford resprayed in the early 80’s at less than 10 years old and it wasn’t long before the rust was coming through again, it was a P reg , P at the end, about mid 70’s and replaced with a D reg, mid 80’s as it was falling apart with rust and wouldn’t pass its MOT.
Mothers Rover shows no signs of nearing its end nor does my MG version .

 

[JP1]

What the Heck have sheep sales to do with JLR ?

Read the thread. It's in Ag thread and discussing why they are going on to short day working. Many (including me) do think Brexit is reducing confidence and demand right now

 

[Muck Spreader]

The reason the Defender was killed off: it was no longer 'fit for purpose'.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jo...NvbS8&guce_referrer_cs=d5ysjV4RAvXfkzAxAu5R3w

Would you rather see your kids go to war in this:

View attachment 718514

Or this:

View attachment 718516

Preferably neither. Interestingly, a friend who was in Iraq told me one of the most tradable things with the Americans was Land Rovers. Apparently they were sh!t scared patrolling the narrow streets in the Humvee's due to the width and the inability to escape quickly from them, LR's were far more nimble. The Iveco LVM is a cool looking machine.

 

[Martin Holden]

Until the nostalgia marketing took hold in the last two years, Defender sales, in the near absence of UK military sales, were at rock bottom and they probably made a big loss on each sale. I believe that in some years the sum of all Defender sales only reached 12,000 or so. That is next to NOTHING. The UK farmer favoured the short wheelbase but historically the 110 was the big seller worldwide. Unfortunately the complete lack of modernisation of the product in both design and assembly resulted in tiny sales volumes and expensive, labour intensive, poor quality inconsistent assembly. They lost the vast majority, no, gave the vast majority of their market away to modern one ton pickup trucks. They did not and have not tried to compete in a market that has consistently grown worldwide and is one of the most profitable lines that, for instance, Ford, GM, Fiat-Chrysler and others sell worldwide.
They ignored or discounted the fact that unlike other brands, the Land Rover, Range Rover image was built on a base of the rugged true utility vehicle. A vehicle type for which there is a massive worldwide demand. They are now stuck with luxury vehicles sold on their ruggedness with very few actually being seen to be used in that way. Their image is no longer built on a solid foundation. Instead their vehicles are starting to be seen more like dentist's and hairdresser's and soccer-mum's cars, which could backfire badly for the company in the long term. People see fewer and fewer Defenders on the road in their natural working clothes and see more and more pickups. Is it any wonder that the leisure purchase of pickups is gaining rapidly and being catered for by the likes of VW and Mercedes and even top models from Ford and Nissan.

Good point! I wonder why they didn't enter the pick up market? I would think many would have bought a Land Rover pick up on name alone? if, Ford, VW, Mitsi, Isuzu etc etc can, why didn't Land Rover?

 

[Nithsdale]

Good point! I wonder why they didn't enter the pick up market? I would think many would have bought a Land Rover pick up on name alone? if, Ford, VW, Mitsi, Isuzu etc etc can, why didn't Land Rover?

They did - Defender 110 double Cab...

If LR hadn't been quite so cash strapped, and had been a bit more forward thinking - the Discovery could easily have had a double cab pickup variant in its lineup... perfect timing would have been the release of Discovery II with the TD5 engine.


Infact I'd be as bold to say... at that time in the late 90's, if LR had dropped the old 90 and 110 completely, made a pickup variant of the Discovery and a SWB Disco van (on the existing 90 chassis) and rebranded them along with the standard commercial Discovery as the all new Defender range nobody would have been up in arms and sales would have continued healthily. It would have changed the game, for everyone

 

[Martin Holden]

They did - Defender 110 double Cab...

If LR hadn't been quite so cash strapped, and had been a bit more forward thinking - the Discovery could easily have had a double cab pickup variant in its lineup... perfect timing would have been the release of Discovery II with the TD5 engine.


Infact I'd be as bold to say... at that time in the late 90's, if LR had dropped the old 90 and 110 completely, made a pickup variant of the Discovery and a SWB Disco van (on the existing 90 chassis) and rebranded them along with the standard commercial Discovery as the all new Defender range nobody would have been up in arms and sales would have continued healthily. It would have changed the game, for everyone

Agreed, but they must have been driven by road car market. It’s mad to see so many Disco’s and RR never taken off road in amyway shape or form.

 

[Nithsdale]

Agreed, but they must have been driven by road car market. It’s mad to see so many Disco’s and RR never taken off road in amyway shape or form.

Well... I wouldn't batter 45k (Disco starting price) off road either. Nevermind an 80k RR

 

[Right-arm fast]

They did - Defender 110 double Cab...

If LR hadn't been quite so cash strapped, and had been a bit more forward thinking - the Discovery could easily have had a double cab pickup variant in its lineup... perfect timing would have been the release of Discovery II with the TD5 engine.


Infact I'd be as bold to say... at that time in the late 90's, if LR had dropped the old 90 and 110 completely, made a pickup variant of the Discovery and a SWB Disco van (on the existing 90 chassis) and rebranded them along with the standard commercial Discovery as the all new Defender range nobody would have been up in arms and sales would have continued healthily. It would have changed the game, for everyone

I like the discovery 2s as well. I would buy them what ever. Not sure they would have looked good as a pick up but by far and away a better vehicle than the defender. I would like them to start building them again - on the proviso they put a bloody good BMW engine in it and it was priced to sell.

 

[NorthEastLad]

The reason the Defender was killed off: it was no longer 'fit for purpose'.
https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/jo...NvbS8&guce_referrer_cs=d5ysjV4RAvXfkzAxAu5R3w

Would you rather see your kids go to war in this:

View attachment 718514

Or this:

View attachment 718516

The Iveco wouldn't be able to get into battle, spends most of the time in 1000 peices.

 

[Hilly]

Im in love with that new jimney on tother thread, looks like a little gwagon lol

 

[Cowabunga]

Im in love with that new jimney on tother thread, looks like a little gwagon lol

Have fun bouncing around in one of those on your 12 mile rough road to civilisation.

 

[Nithsdale]

I like the discovery 2s as well. I would buy them what ever. Not sure they would have looked good as a pick up but by far and away a better vehicle than the defender. I would like them to start building them again - on the proviso they put a bloody good BMW engine in it and it was priced to sell.

Personal I do really like my Puma Defender (and loved our 300tdi before it). I just wish they'd used Ford's 3.2 out of the Ranger, instead of the 2.4 Transit...

Lose the stepped roof, and a bit of thought at the B pillar, a Disco II pickup would have looked fine. Make a SWB version for the existing 90 drivers and it would also steal back the Daihatsu drivers as the Fourtrak was dropped a few years later... suddenly LR would have had the 4x4 market well and truly sewen up with still fully capable vehicles still built on the Defender platform but with a carlike comfort


But sadly that is all just my (hindsight) vision of 20years ago. They've screwed themselves on every level