- Location
- Essex
Apart from the science behind the argument
Is ploughing bad ?
- Thread starter Chips
- Start date
There’s a couple drills running locally one tine the other a disc design
I’ve seen the results and know what type I would go for but can’t find one at a reasonable price.
contrary to my previous thinking I believe in some situations it would work but drill cost puts me off
That’s the issue it’s a start from scratch cost.
tillage gear isn’t worth that much and as said needs to be retained
I've finally got round to reading the Kverneland myth about ploughing linked into the OP. Subsequent posters have been pussy-footing around the subject, but of course ploughing is bad. The article suggests that ploughing creates humus and that burying the trash somehow does this. Most humus in the ground is based around glomalin, a complex compound which has only recently been isolated and studied, but it appears to be mostly created by mycorrhizal fungi which, like most fungi, hate soil disturbance. This is because they comprise a of a dense web of mycelia (when they are not throwing up fruiting bodies, like toadstools) and this web doesn't like ploughing.
Direct drilling on its own won't necessarily encourage mycorrhizae, for instance they don't much like being sprayed with fungicides, herbicides or insecticides, but it is well worth our while to encourage them. They are symbiotic with most plants, they take sugars from the plant roots in exchange for nutrients and water which the roots wouldn't otherwise be able to access. The hyphae of the mycelium can get in amongst clay platelets and extract P etc for the plant, saving us from having to spread fertiliser. The glomalin glues soil particles together to make humus, giving the soil the structure to grow healthy plants, with no interference from us, beyond making sure that they have as many diverse growing roots in the soil for as much of the time as possible. This is one of the reasons why cover crops are so valuable.
The Kverneland study found a bunch of no-till farmers whose SOM was declining. It's perfectly possible and it's also perfectly possible to plough and build SOM. Good organic farmers regularly achieve this as do others who return FYM/compost in sensible amounts. But, as has been pointed out above, comparing good practice ploughing with poor practice no-till (and vice versa) doesn't help anyone. It's a hatchet job, but, to be fair, it has given us a chance to vent off.
Direct drilling on its own won't necessarily encourage mycorrhizae, for instance they don't much like being sprayed with fungicides, herbicides or insecticides, but it is well worth our while to encourage them. They are symbiotic with most plants, they take sugars from the plant roots in exchange for nutrients and water which the roots wouldn't otherwise be able to access. The hyphae of the mycelium can get in amongst clay platelets and extract P etc for the plant, saving us from having to spread fertiliser. The glomalin glues soil particles together to make humus, giving the soil the structure to grow healthy plants, with no interference from us, beyond making sure that they have as many diverse growing roots in the soil for as much of the time as possible. This is one of the reasons why cover crops are so valuable.
The Kverneland study found a bunch of no-till farmers whose SOM was declining. It's perfectly possible and it's also perfectly possible to plough and build SOM. Good organic farmers regularly achieve this as do others who return FYM/compost in sensible amounts. But, as has been pointed out above, comparing good practice ploughing with poor practice no-till (and vice versa) doesn't help anyone. It's a hatchet job, but, to be fair, it has given us a chance to vent off.
Assuming you're doing that, what would you then say are the top 3 problems with ploughing ? The scientific problems, rather than all the financial, logistical etc stuff.
It's expensive and unnecessary as well as disrupting the soil food web with repercussions up the food chain.It will always be riskier wrt erosion compared to undisturbed soil and CO2 emissions will be higher (despite what Kverneland claim). It is energy expensive, in diesel, metal wearing parts, tyres etc.
There is nothing wrong with it ,nothing at all when used strategically and sensitively with a good healthy rotation including livestock, in fact with livestock around it is the best thing possible for giving disease breaks and healthy stock less reliant on wormers etc.
What is wrong , is out and out arable farming and all the main commenters on No til , above are arable farmers with no proper grass leys in their rotation .
Its by far the biggest thing that went wrong with farming, that mixed farming with a proper rotation, what you will find is that those that are solely arable, their farms weren't many years ago, but laziness and sloth on their part meant that livestock went. An easier cash in type system was followed ,to the detriment of their farms. hence remedial action required .pity.
and Arable Farmers using Glyphosate as a fundamental part of there farming system . well they need to be castrated ,so as not breed anymore of their bad habits, lol.
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- Location
- Northumberlandia
Hey so is having any vehicle esp a 4x4 that doesnt do an ave of 50+ mpg ie the big fancy ones that plenty have too have regardless & i'll bet there is a lot of DD ers on here all got them
oh but thats all ok.
Hands up who is so concerned about the earth but doesnt run a vehicle that does a min of 50mpg.
cant wait for the responce on this one
Electric vehicles dont qualify as there a shed load more £££ to buy into from the outset.
And of little use to us that dont rake the roads much on a weekly basis anyways.
Im not an organic farmer nor never have been.
Just joking btw before anyone gets 'offended'
Normally drive a skoda fabia, 50+ mpg and you don't need 4x4 with no-till
as i said there are none ,thats why he doesnt answer.
As far as the Op is concerned Ive not read the kv article , why would a real practical farmer read an article printed up by a big business machinery corporation, they know nothing, about real farming nothing at all, just glossy brochurism, thats all. not interrested,nothing to learn, no inspiration .
Salesmanship full stop.
ollie989898
Member
If people are that convinced that DD doesn't work they need only spend £500, get an acreage direct drilled by a neighbour with a claydon, watch it fail and then they have lost nothing.
If it works however, they have a lot of head scratching to do.
If it works however, they have a lot of head scratching to do.
Edit - I will have to bite the bullet and buy another drill of some sorts eventually as the one I’ve got has it’s failings in some situations and won’t last forever.
need something that will cover several bases which is where I’m scratching my head quite a bit as well.
ideal world is keep the current one as some jobs it’s Bob on for and buy another as well but obviously that ups the cost factor
If ploughing releases more co2 than it has sequestered per year then after the 100s years of ploughing surely the land will surely be in negative amount of co2?
How is it actually measured or is it all theory?
How is it actually measured or is it all theory?
A drill would have be priced right here and despite whats been said they arent atm and im not into buying someones worn down stuff. will be mainly for quick establishment of forage crops/catchcrops to time before rain after the combine etc. Grant could make it possible.
We Wont be using a contractor as despite being trendy its not on our list, we like to do the job ourselves, with lighter tractors than they have as well.
along with that wont be buying 'low disturbance looseners either. or straw rakes or whatever else machinery wise has been instigated by a new idea.
Volunteers are the biggest challenge ime in the above use , Well see.
but Plants growing put C02 down into the soil so its ongoing.
That’s what I thought.
But going by this thread putting nuclear waste on your land would do less harm than the plough.
Im also guessing that the ground can only sequester so much co2? Therefore it comes to a point ploughing and direct drilling becomes equal?
I'm not sure about all this 'offence ' thing or quite what it is.
What i 'responded to' was the fact that you started off well, in reply to my genuine response to your Finland comment, then your addition of the Castration bit ,well that threw it all out the window.
You would be better asking one of the others above i'm no expert .
and this is the no til section , so i'm out now ,Happy days