Is ploughing bad ?

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
By the sounds of it you have no intention of excepting the fact that many scientific bodies have documented many species driven to extinction by man,isn’t it about time to step down from you soap box and prove yourself right and not rely on others to keep listing extinct species only to be ignored by yourself. Reminds me of wat dad used to say. There is none so blind as those who don’t want to see.
I really would appreciate that list. I can’t actually ignore a list without actually having seen the list that you claim to “keep listing”, along with details of how humans are responsible for their demise. I can’t see what is not here to see. Perhaps I missed it further up the topic, although I don’t think so.
Thanks in advance.
 
Last edited:

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
I now have to say that ploughing is bad (or at least Not good!) because having converted to No-till, but kept hold of my plough and Combi, just in case No-tilling didn’t work, this has just left the farm:
View attachment 1001757
View attachment 1001756

So now I’m pretty committed to not ploughing any more.

Having given up ploughing 3 times already and swearing that there will never be a 4th, I’m reasonably confident that indeed there still wont be a 4th!
Was only a few years ago we had furious debates about ploughing v no till!
 

Flatlander

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lorette Manitoba
I really would appreciate that list. I can’t actually ignore a list without actually having seen the list with details of how humans are responsible for their demise. Thanks in advance.
You asked on post 54 for the top five. I googled it and posted them.others have given examples also. Man up and except the fact or ignore it. It’s your choice.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
You asked on post 54 for the top five. I googled it and posted them.others have given examples also. Man up and except the fact or ignore it. It’s your choice.
These are the ones you listed
I’l list the first five from the list that became extinct in 2020, splendid poison frog,smooth hand fish,Jalpa false brook salamander, spiced dwarf mantis,Bonnie pipstrelle bat all of which probably have never been heard of the the average man but they still are gone forever.

None of which you have even attempted to claim that were due to human activity either directly or indirectly. You take the ‘blame’ on your shoulders if you like. I’m certainly not going to.
 

Flatlander

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lorette Manitoba
These are the ones you listed


None of which you have even attempted to claim that were due to human activity either directly or indirectly. You take the ‘blame’ on your shoulders if you like. I’m certainly not going to.
If you drive a vehicle or buy anything from the store your contributing to it. Live in denial in your fairy tale land But step outside your fenced in utopia and realize there’s a whole world out there.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
If you drive a vehicle or buy anything from the store your contributing to it. Live in denial in your fairy tale land But step outside your fenced in utopia and realize there’s a whole world out there.
Absolute bollòcks. How does any of that contribute to the demise of any of those species you listed? Is it the CO2? No, of course not because it enables lush vegetation to grow. Is it the iron ore? Surely not. Is it the money I spend at the shops? Of course not. So what is this guilt that you carry? Are you religious at all? Do you believe in ‘the sins of your fathers’ and all that crap?

Perhaps YOU have been personally responsible for extinctions somehow? This would explain your guilt trip and need for self flagellation.

Perhaps its the ploughing and specifically farmer’s fault worldwide that one specific breed of pipistrelle bat dies out. Pipistrelle bats by the way, are the most common species of bat probably in the world and live by the tens of millions.
 
Last edited:

Flatlander

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lorette Manitoba
I carry no guilt but im not so narrow minded to believe that my actions don’t come without consequences, everything I buy was produced by someone who buys from others so it’s a cycle. Not that its any of your business but I’m not in the slightest bit religious but it’s doesn’t stop me from having a conscious,know right from wrong or helping others. In fact I’m so caring that if you want I’ll come visit and help pull your head out your a55 then maybe you can live in the real world. Sweet dreams princess. I’m done here.
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
I wish I had time to waste time writing, let alone read what is obviously a private argument between 2 TFF members.

Come on guys, you are both better than this, to spoil what is a very important and highly relevant thread.
 

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
I carry no guilt but im not so narrow minded to believe that my actions don’t come without consequences, everything I buy was produced by someone who buys from others so it’s a cycle. Not that its any of your business but I’m not in the slightest bit religious but it’s doesn’t stop me from having a conscious,know right from wrong or helping others. In fact I’m so caring that if you want I’ll come visit and help pull your head out your a55 then maybe you can live in the real world. Sweet dreams princess. I’m done here.
You probably mean ‘conscience’. But conscience for what? What have you done that you feel so guilty about? Why do you feel the need to carry a guilt for something that is totally insignificant in the grand scheme of things? It is the height of arrogance to allocate the blame for massive loss of species on man when only a handful have been directly driven to extinction by man and then mostly centuries ago. If you need to feel guilty about any such thing, feel the personal guilt for the millions of creatures you kill every time you till a field. Small they may be, but every one of them is a life you have cut short through your direct action.

You still have not explained how man has killed off a single one of your five creatures listed.
 
Last edited:

Cowabunga

Member
Location
Ceredigion,Wales
I wish I had time to waste time writing, let alone read what is obviously a private argument between 2 TFF members.

Come on guys, you are both better than this, to spoil what is a very important and highly relevant thread.
There is nothing more important than the survival of our planet and ultimately our species. Unless you can think of one.
 

jackrussell101

Member
Mixed Farmer
According to Kvernelands latest newsletter, apparently not...

20220204_173446.jpg
 

Grass And Grain

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Yorks
Talk about vested interest!
I was thinking of selling my KV plough now I don’t need it any more. But having read that tripe, maybe I should take a gas-axe to it to prevent others from using it.
Does the total soil OM increase with no-till, or is it just that it's concentrated in the top few cm of soil?
 

BuskhillFarm

Member
Arable Farmer
Does the total soil OM increase with no-till, or is it just that it's concentrated in the top few cm of soil?
I went to an seminar hosted by nfu, cafre and teagasc this week. They done years of research in carbon capture and said ploughing was much better for carbon sink as min til just increased the top few cm but below was much worse so evened out.
Said for example if you had 100 hectares planted 1 hectare in trees and used bit of om on crops you were carbon neutral. Livestock and Dairy were exponentially worse.
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
Does the total soil OM increase with no-till, or is it just that it's concentrated in the top few cm of soil?
I think you get more in the top but it’s very subjective. I think what you do other than the cultivation is important.
no till, straw removed every year and only replaced with tsp for 40 years is going to have lower OM than ploughing that has fym every year.
Although I will maintain that a ploughed/heavily cultivated soil is more at risk of carbon oxidised/erosion etc.
 

ajd132

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Suffolk
I went to an seminar hosted by nfu, cafre and teagasc this week. They done years of research in carbon capture and said ploughing was much better for carbon sink as min til just increased the top few cm but below was much worse so evened out.
Said for example if you had 100 hectares planted 1 hectare in trees and used bit of om on crops you were carbon neutral. Livestock and Dairy were exponentially worse.
Was that the work that teagasc did that was sponsored by Lemken?!
 

Two Tone

Member
Mixed Farmer
Does the total soil OM increase with no-till, or is it just that it's concentrated in the top few cm of soil?
There are people on TFF who could answer this better than me such as @Warnesworth and @ajd132
However, I’ll tell you my thoughts:
No-till will take a few years to get the soil into a state for it to fully acclimatise to what was its original state, which was probably permanent pasture which was also when it had probably was at its highest OM level and had the most Earth worms in it. These are your cultivators because they pull down the straw from the last crop and along with the roots of the last crop allow the OM to build up.
When we plough or min-till a field we smell that rich smell. In reality, this is oxidation of the OM to the atmosphere.
Yes to start with, OM will build up quickly in the surface, but will get deeper as time goes on.
The proof of this is what happens in PP that has never been ploughed. Dig down to see how far the ‘top-soil’ with all its OM goes and it will probably be as deep, if not deeper than plough depth.

Here is another thing: I now use 1/8 of the fuel I used to use when establishing a crop with a plough.This is a huge saving of CO2, but pales into insignificance compared to the CO2 I now don’t release from the soil, had I have ploughed it.

There is no reason whatsoever why you cannot continue to muck land that is DD’d.

Just remember that no where in nature, does soil naturally plough itself.
 
Last edited:

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.3%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.9%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,293
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top