Is Red Tractor actually legal?

[ollie989898]

If all of you just cancelled your RT membership what is the industry going to do? Dairies would run out of milk within hours. Mills would be scratching their heads as well. You need to stand together and send a mass email saying on the date of X you will no longer be members of red tractor. Large portions of the grain, beef, dairy and pig/poultry sectors in various regions could cause chaos to the supply chain if this happened. I don't understand what makes you so different to the French farmers who will band together very readily.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Apologies. Its from a red tractor farmers twitter page on 23rd November, but links to a publication from the RT website.

Thanks, I'll look it up

They have been so concerned about protecting their current privileged position that they have completely failed to consider reforming which would benefit us all.

They should be promoting all British produce with an explanation as to why there is a premium for RT produce because of the extra costs and standards.
They should be telling buyers what premiums are required for the standards they wish to be checked.
What is possibly illegal with its current formation, is how the all the other parts of the supply chain are conspiring together,using RT to extract the maximum benefit from the primary producer. It is collusion.

You'd almost think RT was deliberately structured so processors got Rolls Royce standards at free cost.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Well bugger me, I didn’t know that.
I was allways under the impression that RT inspected livestock farms had to buy all feed from a RT accredited source, the only non RT feed allowed being that which had been through the magic feed mills which cones out the other side RT accredited.
They certainly kept that one quiet.

They don't advertise it much do they. Wonder why?

Look up RT feed warranty declaration.

 

[where is hardy]

I was just RT beef assured even though we also have sheep . After several years I was told i had to do the sheep aswell . More money obviously. Also am I correct in thinking that you have to be RT assured to sell sugar beet to BS

 

[Skimmer]

We have to find or start convincing buyers they don't need red tractor, but first of all we need to change the minds of the many farmers who think its a good idea.
Surely it would only take one grain major grain merchant or supermarket chain to pull the plug and it would collapse.

 

[Two Tone]

I’ve just come back from a NRoSO meeting.
At that meeting, one of the attendees is an IAC Agronomist and also and RT inspector working with NSF.
A point of note arose where something in NRoSO had to be in force, just to comply with RT, which if you aren’t in RT wouldn’t apply to you.
Several of us said that we didn’t think RT would be around for much longer, in which case that rule would become irrelevant.
Instantly out came the “It’ll be much worse if RT goes” comment from guess who(?). To which the rest of us pointed out the many woes of RT and the fact that all that was required already exists in legislation and trading Standards.
To which the reply came “They don’t have enough staff to enforce it”.
To which we all replied “That is their problem, not ours!”

Later during the meeting, said inspector revealed that he believed at least half the rules and totally unnecessary, especially the new ones. However he believed that the HSE ones should be included. WTF do we have a government organisation called HSE for?

BUT, wait for it:
However, worst of all, he said that he had to fail some of the farmers, for fear of RT claiming he wasn’t hard enough therefore bringing the scheme into (Further!!) disrepute!
He further went on to say that it is a GOOD THING for a farmer to fail every now and again anyway, so as NOT to provide suspicion on RT’s part that they are being unfairly judged.

“After all, it’s only a minor non-conformance”, nobody should worry about that.”
WTF!! Why TF should we pay for such a privilege?

It doesn’t take anybody long to realise that if this is the case, then the scheme is an absolute SHAM!
Standards are standards. You either pass or fail them to a SET standard. They cannot move the goal posts.
You absolutely CANNOT has two or more levels of standards, used to deliberately fail anybody to keep the “fail rate” up enough so as to save face when quested why it is so many of the farms RT examines, pass!

I’m certain, as I’m sure anybody is, that this attitude is VERY morally wrong!
Surely it ought to also be LEGALLY wrong too?

CAN there be any Court in the Land that if such a case were put before it, would not immediately overturn a deliberate RT examiners non-conformance?


Talk about disrepute, the hole scheme stinks and is rotten to the core!

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

If all of you just cancelled your RT membership what is the industry going to do? Dairies would run out of milk within hours. Mills would be scratching their heads as well. You need to stand together and send a mass email saying on the date of X you will no longer be members of red tractor. Large portions of the grain, beef, dairy and pig/poultry sectors in various regions could cause chaos to the supply chain if this happened. I don't understand what makes you so different to the French farmers who will band together very readily.

We've all got different start dates, so that even if we tell them we're out, the merchant can look up your membership number so the assurance is live.

 

[ollie989898]

I’ve just come back from a NRoSO meeting.
At that meeting, one of the attendees is an IAC Agronomist and also and RT inspector working with NSF.
A point of note arose where something in NRoSO had to be in force, just to comply with RT, which if you aren’t in RT wouldn’t apply to you.
Several of us said that we didn’t think RT would be around for much longer, in which case that rule would become irrelevant.
Instantly out came the “It’ll be much worse if RT goes” comment from guess who(?). To which the rest of us pointed out the many woes of RT and the fact that all that was required already exists in legislation and trading Standards.
To which the reply came “They don’t have enough staff to enforce it”.
To which we all replied “That is their problem, not ours!”

Later during the meeting, said inspector revealed that he believed at least half the rules and totally unnecessary, especially the new ones. However he believed that the HSE ones should be included. WTF do we have a government organisation called HSE for?

BUT, wait for it:
However, worst of all, he said that he had to fail some of the farmers, for fear of RT claiming he wasn’t hard enough therefore bringing the scheme into (Further!!) disrepute!
He further went on to say that it is a GOOD THING for a farmer to fail every now and again anyway, so as NOT to provide suspicion on RT’s part that they are being unfairly judged.

“After all, it’s only a minor non-conformance”, nobody should worry about that.”
WTF!! Why TF should we pay for such a privilege?

It doesn’t take anybody long to realise that if this is the case, then the scheme is an absolute SHAM!
Standards are standards. You either pass or fail them to a SET standard. They cannot move the goal posts.
You absolutely CANNOT has two or more levels of standards, used to deliberately fail anybody to keep the “fail rate” up enough so as to save face when quested why it is so many of the farms RT examines, pass!

I’m certain, as I’m sure anybody is, that this attitude is VERY morally wrong!
Surely it ought to also be LEGALLY wrong too?

CAN there be any Court in the Land that if such a case were put before it, would not immediately overturn a deliberate RT examiners non-conformance?


Talk about disrepute, the hole scheme stinks and is rotten to the core!

So you have blokes out there taking a shilling for being a RT 'inspector' and also working as an independent agronomist? I should think he wants to keep that a bit quiet.

 

[Hfd Cattle]

I'm glad someone started a thread about RT
......thought it would never happen

 

[DrWazzock]

If all of you just cancelled your RT membership what is the industry going to do? Dairies would run out of milk within hours. Mills would be scratching their heads as well. You need to stand together and send a mass email saying on the date of X you will no longer be members of red tractor. Large portions of the grain, beef, dairy and pig/poultry sectors in various regions could cause chaos to the supply chain if this happened. I don't understand what makes you so different to the French farmers who will band together very readily.

This is the only way anything will move. Set a date for a mass exodus and make sure you have enough people committed to leaving RT on that day. It loses critical mass and dies.
Problem is there are too many goody two shoes only too willing to bend over for a penny or two. You need a militant growers and producers organisation first with the priority being eventual mass exodus of RT. Condition of membership is that once a certain number of members have joined, everybody leaves RT.
Leaving individually is hopeless. You just end up a martyr without a cause.
It needs coordinated action and real solidarity so the chance of it happening amongst farmers is just about zero. Too many willing to cut another’s throat for a penny. That’s how it gained traction in the first place. We didn’t want it. We were compelled to join to sell our goods.

 

[Two Tone]

So you have blokes out there taking a shilling for being a RT 'inspector' and also working as an independent agronomist? I should think he wants to keep that a bit quiet.

Jees, you think that is bad!
@MrNoo and I had one who was also an Agronomist. Not unknown for taking an Unofficial “Bribe’ for mending his lawnmower.

Worse still, he didn’t see eye to eye with my own Agronomist and always looked particularly hard at trying to pull him up on my Gatekeeper spray recommendation sheets as a type of vendetta against him!
A certain minimum 200l/ha spray volume for Atlantis and BioPower comes to mind!

His Laptop was so old that the battery was fooked and he would always without asking plug it into my 13 amp socket to be able to ask the questions and fill in his report. Not to mention asking for my Broadband WiFi code.
I should have charged him for it!

The fecker always failed me to boot! Until I managed to get him to be assessed while he assessed me and he had to pass us. He never came back here after that.

 

[DrWazzock]

Farners Against Red Tractor.
FART.

 

[MrNoo]

Jees, you think that is bad!
@MrNoo and I had one who was also an Agronomist. Not unknown for taking an Unofficial “Bribe’ for mending his lawnmower.

Worse still, he didn’t see eye to eye with my own Agronomist and always looked particularly hard at trying to pull him up on my Gatekeeper spray recommendation sheets as a type of vendetta against him!
A certain minimum 200l/ha spray volume for Atlantis and BioPower comes to mind!

His Laptop was so old that the battery was fooked and he would always without asking plug it into my 13 amp socket to be able to ask the questions and fill in his report. Not to mention asking for my Broadband WiFi code.
I should have charged him for it!

The fecker always failed me to boot! Until I managed to get him to be assessed while he assessed me and he had to pass us. He never came back here after that.

Should have learnt to weld......!!!
Old Frank Smiley, lovely chap, got on well with him!!

 

[Two Tone]

Should have learnt to weld......!!!
Old Frank Smiley, lovely chap, got on well with him!!

You lucky bar-steward!!!

WTF did you leave RT for?
I hope to Christ it wasn’t because you liked him so much and wanted him back.

I can weld. I’d have mended his lawnmower too if he hadn’t have been such an - - - - - - - -!
We even have a Blacksmith that rents one of our farm buildings from us, who he could have asked to weld it and sharpen the blades. But he’s probably too tight to want to pay them. (Hence his clapped out Lap-top!)

 

[warksfarmer]

I’ve just come back from a NRoSO meeting.
At that meeting, one of the attendees is an IAC Agronomist and also and RT inspector working with NSF.
A point of note arose where something in NRoSO had to be in force, just to comply with RT, which if you aren’t in RT wouldn’t apply to you.
Several of us said that we didn’t think RT would be around for much longer, in which case that rule would become irrelevant.
Instantly out came the “It’ll be much worse if RT goes” comment from guess who(?). To which the rest of us pointed out the many woes of RT and the fact that all that was required already exists in legislation and trading Standards.
To which the reply came “They don’t have enough staff to enforce it”.
To which we all replied “That is their problem, not ours!”

Later during the meeting, said inspector revealed that he believed at least half the rules and totally unnecessary, especially the new ones. However he believed that the HSE ones should be included. WTF do we have a government organisation called HSE for?

BUT, wait for it:
However, worst of all, he said that he had to fail some of the farmers, for fear of RT claiming he wasn’t hard enough therefore bringing the scheme into (Further!!) disrepute!
He further went on to say that it is a GOOD THING for a farmer to fail every now and again anyway, so as NOT to provide suspicion on RT’s part that they are being unfairly judged.

“After all, it’s only a minor non-conformance”, nobody should worry about that.”
WTF!! Why TF should we pay for such a privilege?

It doesn’t take anybody long to realise that if this is the case, then the scheme is an absolute SHAM!
Standards are standards. You either pass or fail them to a SET standard. They cannot move the goal posts.
You absolutely CANNOT has two or more levels of standards, used to deliberately fail anybody to keep the “fail rate” up enough so as to save face when quested why it is so many of the farms RT examines, pass!

I’m certain, as I’m sure anybody is, that this attitude is VERY morally wrong!
Surely it ought to also be LEGALLY wrong too?

CAN there be any Court in the Land that if such a case were put before it, would not immediately overturn a deliberate RT examiners non-conformance?


Talk about disrepute, the hole scheme stinks and is rotten to the core!

Sounds like sour grapes from the sinking ship.

 

[Grass And Grain]

I was just RT beef assured even though we also have sheep . After several years I was told i had to do the sheep aswell . More money obviously. Also am I correct in thinking that you have to be RT assured to sell sugar beet to BS

Interesting, didn't know this.

This sort of puts more RT sheep out there. Makes it look like RT is more popular than it actually is?

 

[Barleymow]

@Laggard re rt beet?

 

[JP1]

Interesting, didn't know this.

This sort of puts more RT sheep out there. Makes it look like RT is more popular than it actually is?

Beef and lamb is the same assurance so presumably it has to be declared and a few extra sheets of tick boxes done at inspection

 

[Grass And Grain]

Beef and lamb is the same assurance so presumably it has to be declared and a few extra sheets of tick boxes done at inspection

Presumably same audit, with a couple of extra things sheep or beef specific. Movements, tagging, that sort of thing.

But can't have one without the other. No choice. Why not? Obvs TBF basically same audit, so from farmers point of view would want beef AND sheep.

Imagine I'm having a conspiracy theory moment when I'm sceptical and think because they want as much RT stock as possible in the marketplace, so buyers and famers get used to it mainly been RT stock.

 

[JP1]

Presumably same audit, with a couple of extra things sheep or beef specific. Movements, tagging, that sort of thing.

But can't have one without the other. No choice. Why not? Obvs TBF basically same audit, so from farmers point of view would want beef AND sheep.

Imagine I'm having a conspiracy theory moment when I'm sceptical and think because they want as much RT stock as possible in the marketplace, so buyers and famers get used to it mainly been RT stock.

No expert but I deduced that the poster had had a beef only audit simply because sheep weren't declared at the time of inspection appointment ? When I was RT my inspector just audited both , same price, same kitchen top exercise eating chocolate biscuits