- Location
- Cornwall.
Improving the digestibility of a sward by only 1% can increase animal output by 5% a good reason to rejuvenate an odd ley or two?
Is reseeding a good thing if you are thinking holisticly
- Thread starter Farmersdaughter
- Start date
Old McDonald
Member
- Location
- Harray, Orkney
Yes, if they are leys, but permanent pasture is not a ley.
mikep
Member
- Location
- Arse end of Surrey, UK
Wouldn't notice 5% increase with sheep but would notice £80 acre and time doing it. My pp are very high in kww clover can you get that out of a bag in yr one or do I need N? Btw how long does that 5% last? Not long. If your on the big money treadmill fine but my pp suits me as it is and it smells nice.
REStracTORATION
Member
I'm in the same boat as the OP. Very old PP. Lots of plantain but not too much clover. Some fields race away, others are very slow to get going. I have been reading Grassland Management for Organic Farmers by David Younie which is interesting but possibly more aimed at silage making etc.
So I was looking at a 2 pronged approach. Firstly weed control. In my case docks and creeping thistle. I'm hoping mob grazing and hard topping will help with the thistle. Goats also seem to like the young thistle and I'm doing an experiment with my current 4 in a heras panel pen I've put up on a bad patch to see what damage they can do to them. Docs are maybe more tricky but I find a certain amount acceptable and they do get eaten.
Secondly, possibly overseeding to add new species and more clover in. I was wondering if I could borrow or buy a few cattle as part of the rotation and simply broadcast seed when the soil is damp and let them trample it in?
So I was looking at a 2 pronged approach. Firstly weed control. In my case docks and creeping thistle. I'm hoping mob grazing and hard topping will help with the thistle. Goats also seem to like the young thistle and I'm doing an experiment with my current 4 in a heras panel pen I've put up on a bad patch to see what damage they can do to them. Docs are maybe more tricky but I find a certain amount acceptable and they do get eaten.
Secondly, possibly overseeding to add new species and more clover in. I was wondering if I could borrow or buy a few cattle as part of the rotation and simply broadcast seed when the soil is damp and let them trample it in?
- Location
- Montgomeryshire
Back home (N.Glos), in the mid-90's we bought an 80 ac block of old pp, heavy clay that had never been reseeded in living memory. It was half of a 160ac block which we had rented on a short term agreement for the previous 20 years, and continued that agreement on the remaining land until very recently. Having never been allowed to improve the ground by the landlord, we set about sorting out that block.
Over the next couple of years, we set about improving the ground. We leveled a couple of fields of steep ridge & furrow with a 360, removed a couple of daft fences, limed it all and put all of it through a couple of wheats before reseeding with a long term PRG & clover ley. The difference in production from that ground was astounding, nearing double in quantity and far, far better quality. We applied 1cwt/ac of straight Nitrogen to kick start growth in the Spring, before the clover got going, grazed hard with sheep, then shut up for silage. We took a heavy first cut for the dairy herd in the first week of June, put about an inch of separated liquid on with an umbilical, then either had a second cut or rotationally grazed with dairy heifers or weaned lambs. P&K indices where maintained by the separated liquid, the clover produced all the N apart from that initial kick and the sward flourished. It was as thick in the bottom as most lawns and regularly won the local show's grass ley competitions. Most of those leys were still maintaining that level of production for 10 years +.
The adjoining 80ac was managed much as it had been for decades, with a kick of N in the Spring, a bit of compound to replace P&K offtake, and a late cut of hay or silage for the followers, before rotational grazing. It continued to decline in pasture quality and output, with the weed grasses outcompeting anything useful, right up to the point where it was given up as a bad job a couple of years ago.
Aside from the clear difference in output, I could open the gate and walk stock through to the poorer stuff, whenever I wanted to stop them growing. If I wanted to set them off again, I could walk them back through. The difference really was that black and white. The new leys certainly weren't dependant on heavy Nitrogen applications. They had sheep grazing them all winter, without poaching and had fantastic soil structure.
It is a difference that I have always remembered, and one that I have seen again on old pp that I have rejuvenated on some of this farm in the last 5 years.
It might not be considered a trendy enough approach to be called 'holistic' farming, we just called it good, old fashioned, farming.
Over the next couple of years, we set about improving the ground. We leveled a couple of fields of steep ridge & furrow with a 360, removed a couple of daft fences, limed it all and put all of it through a couple of wheats before reseeding with a long term PRG & clover ley. The difference in production from that ground was astounding, nearing double in quantity and far, far better quality. We applied 1cwt/ac of straight Nitrogen to kick start growth in the Spring, before the clover got going, grazed hard with sheep, then shut up for silage. We took a heavy first cut for the dairy herd in the first week of June, put about an inch of separated liquid on with an umbilical, then either had a second cut or rotationally grazed with dairy heifers or weaned lambs. P&K indices where maintained by the separated liquid, the clover produced all the N apart from that initial kick and the sward flourished. It was as thick in the bottom as most lawns and regularly won the local show's grass ley competitions. Most of those leys were still maintaining that level of production for 10 years +.
The adjoining 80ac was managed much as it had been for decades, with a kick of N in the Spring, a bit of compound to replace P&K offtake, and a late cut of hay or silage for the followers, before rotational grazing. It continued to decline in pasture quality and output, with the weed grasses outcompeting anything useful, right up to the point where it was given up as a bad job a couple of years ago.
Aside from the clear difference in output, I could open the gate and walk stock through to the poorer stuff, whenever I wanted to stop them growing. If I wanted to set them off again, I could walk them back through. The difference really was that black and white. The new leys certainly weren't dependant on heavy Nitrogen applications. They had sheep grazing them all winter, without poaching and had fantastic soil structure.
It is a difference that I have always remembered, and one that I have seen again on old pp that I have rejuvenated on some of this farm in the last 5 years.
It might not be considered a trendy enough approach to be called 'holistic' farming, we just called it good, old fashioned, farming.
renewablejohn
Member
- Location
- lancs
Well just finished running the straight discs through all our PP and with all this dry weather it has really cut and lifted the sward really well. Was thinking of broadcasting some clover any advice on red or white.
- Location
- Cornwall.
Red short term white long term, red cut & white cut/graze choose to suit.
renewablejohn
Member
- Location
- lancs
Would red smother rushes.