Is there anything more annoying...

[spin cycle]

how about having got a ewe to take a lamb....then the lamb decides it doesn't want to know

worst thing is a young ewe getting mastitis...cos she's produced lambs for you but you've gotta send down the road

 

[exmoor dave]

Sounds like fun.
However, I would suggest it depends on the breed too, some being more amenable than others. I rarely failed with the Texel crosses, but once their Highlander descendants decide one of the lambs isn’t theirs, that’s it.
Had three this year that had one lamb wander off to another ewe when they were being licked, two of them only for 5-10 minutes. They’ve all ended up going out of the messabout pens with one.

I won’t be culling them for it though, and would expect them to be fine next year.

I'm guessing you record they've been naughty, I'm having a fairly bad problem with rejections of one twin this year, all in one specific group of 90 ewes, all mature ewes, all one breed, of the 90, about 50 have lambed and of those 50, 8 ewes have thrown a twin, in nearly all cases the rejected lamb is still with the fudging ewe.
Out of those 8 ewes, 2 had previous on their permanent record for rejecting,
And one ewe inside had the same previous and has done it again this year.

Success rate so far..... 2 ewes gone back out with 2 lambs.
3 given up on
4 still in lock town

 

[wr.]

than a ewe that rejects one of its own lambs

By what I understand, God created two things to frustrate a man and test his patience and resolve.
The other is a woman but don't tell my OH I said that.

 

[Gulli]

I'm guessing you record they've been naughty, I'm having a fairly bad problem with rejections of one twin this year, all in one specific group of 90 ewes, all mature ewes, all one breed, of the 90, about 50 have lambed and of those 50, 8 ewes have thrown a twin, in nearly all cases the rejected lamb is still with the fudging ewe.
Out of those 8 ewes, 2 had previous on their permanent record for rejecting,
And one ewe inside had the same previous and has done it again this year.

Success rate so far..... 2 ewes gone back out with 2 lambs.
3 given up on
4 still in lock town

Americans will pay good money to hunt sheep

Had a triplet and a single lamb next to each other last week so figured I'd make 2 twins, first one got smashed into the wall, second one got thrown in the water bucket and I didn't even bother with trying the 3rd one

Bloody things

Also have the fattest ewe of the flock(they are a skinny bunch this year) unable to produce enough milk for a single

 

[Jim75]

We’ve got a Field called Birmingham, any problems and they’re threatened with the “you’ll go to Birmingham if not” only do it once

 

[Spartacus]

Definitely not.

We always cull them. But for the last 10 years or so were culling the rejected offspring too

Has it helped things?

 

[neilo]

I'm guessing you record they've been naughty, I'm having a fairly bad problem with rejections of one twin this year, all in one specific group of 90 ewes, all mature ewes, all one breed, of the 90, about 50 have lambed and of those 50, 8 ewes have thrown a twin, in nearly all cases the rejected lamb is still with the fudging ewe.
Out of those 8 ewes, 2 had previous on their permanent record for rejecting,
And one ewe inside had the same previous and has done it again this year.

Success rate so far..... 2 ewes gone back out with 2 lambs.
3 given up on
4 still in lock town

On the other hand.....is it the flip side of a strong bonding mechanism that means I don’t worry about mismothering when there are 250 ewes with very young lambs in a field?
I can’t remember the last one that took a dislike to one of her own lambs without a reason, like it picking up the scent off another ewe when it wandered off. I consider it a result of my stocking them too tightly at lambing (twins at 12-15/ac at the start of lambing, in order to use the most sheltered paddock). If I were to stock at 5/ac, they would have more room to find a spot, so less likely to happen?

 

[hendrebc]

I sometimes think an old ewe being useless with twins either not knowing how to count them or rejecting one might be because she has only ever had a single and then doesn't know what to do with a second one much like a cow with twins will do. But I don't record them so have no way of knowinh whether that is true or not...
But then again I never have shearling ewes do it unless something went wrong so there is probably not much in my theory?

 

[Danllan]

We’ve got a Field called Birmingham, any problems and they’re threatened with the “you’ll go to Birmingham if not” only do it once

Slough is pretty awful so might be more of a threat, , or perhaps Bradford...

 

[Farmer_Joe]

I'm guessing you record they've been naughty, I'm having a fairly bad problem with rejections of one twin this year, all in one specific group of 90 ewes, all mature ewes, all one breed, of the 90, about 50 have lambed and of those 50, 8 ewes have thrown a twin, in nearly all cases the rejected lamb is still with the fudging ewe.
Out of those 8 ewes, 2 had previous on their permanent record for rejecting,
And one ewe inside had the same previous and has done it again this year.

Success rate so far..... 2 ewes gone back out with 2 lambs.
3 given up on
4 still in lock town

ive had a bad year with my 'blue tag' 2 shear sheep, 1 idiot rejected it lamb and it was a single, adopter 2 days then into pen still not happy, bucket head for 2 days in pen then happy enough left shed with no bucket happy with lamb, but thats got death tag no question.

Another had twins both sucked happy, marked them up (lambed outside) walked then through gate went across field and i could hear her attcking it against gate, rejected 1 so had to bring in, bucket on head for 1 day and she came round, i debated giving her death tag but she got let off.

Another blue tag gain today rejecting twin, brought in (licked them both off but rejected 1) after reading this death tag no question, i have better thing to do than waste time on these...

all lambed out side totally clear of any other sheep there just tools.

 

[Jim75]

ive had a bad year with my 'blue tag' 2 shear sheep, 1 idiot rejected it lamb and it was a single, adopter 2 days then into pen still not happy, bucket head for 2 days in pen then happy enough left shed with no bucket happy with lamb, but thats got death tag no question.

Another had twins both sucked happy, marked them up (lambed outside) walked then through gate went across field and i could hear her attcking it against gate, rejected 1 so had to bring in, bucket on head for 1 day and she came round, i debated giving her death tag but she got let off.

Another blue tag gain today rejecting twin, brought in (licked them both off but rejected 1) after reading this death tag no question, i have better thing to do than waste time on these...

all lambed out side totally clear of any other sheep there just tools.

Bucket on the head?

 

[Farmer_Joe]

i wondered what the fu3k people did it for too, cut the bottom out of a bucket, carefully place it over sheep head (not dissimilar to things vets put on dog to stop them licking them selves)

this restricts their peripheral vision and the generally just let lambs suck, works especially well if they are only taking 1 lamb, the sniff it then just let 2 suck, over time they just take the other lamb and best bit is you can have em in field with it if you have small paddock.

much better than sticking them back in adopter, i used to think people were idiots using them but its a godsend!

 

[neilo]

i wondered what the fu3k people did it for too, cut the bottom out of a bucket, carefully place it over sheep head (not dissimilar to things vets put on dog to stop them licking them selves)

this restricts their peripheral vision and the generally just let lambs suck, works especially well if they are only taking 1 lamb, the sniff it then just let 2 suck, over time they just take the other lamb and best bit is you can have em in field with it if you have small paddock.

much better than sticking them back in adopter, i used to think people were idiots using them but its a godsend!

I do the same with a plastic feed sack, with the bottom cut off to make into a tube.

Usually works, but some b*tches even beat that. Had one once that needed it so long that I weaned the lamb.

 

[exmoor dave]

On the other hand.....is it the flip side of a strong bonding mechanism that means I don’t worry about mismothering when there are 250 ewes with very young lambs in a field?
I can’t remember the last one that took a dislike to one of her own lambs without a reason, like it picking up the scent off another ewe when it wandered off. I consider it a result of my stocking them too tightly at lambing (twins at 12-15/ac at the start of lambing, in order to use the most sheltered paddock). If I were to stock at 5/ac, they would have more room to find a spot, so less likely to happen?

The problem bunch are set stocked just under 4/ac.
3 rejected twins yesterday, one ewe had both lambs next too her, but one was abit of a wrong'un and I think she knew, so fair enough.

The other two rejects had been born the evening before and had sucked, but were away from thrir mums yesterday, both i think had been nicked by over enthusiastic ewes on the verge of lambing.

But a few earlier ewes have rejected lambs for seemingly no reason what so ever!
Have lambed the same breed (actual same ewes!) in the same field previously with out this problem

 

[Global ovine]

Rejection of one twin in any age group of ewes can occur if there is interruption in the bonding process in those vital minutes after birth.
Like many NZ farmers, I suffered such frustrations on stormy nights when all sheep sought shelter thereby increasing the stocking rate in a particular area where ewes and particularly young lambs were crossing the birth sites confusing ewes with new born lambs on the ground.
The other significant cause was twinners lambing on very steep hills where the first lamb slid away down hill and the ewe remained preoccupied at the birth site due to a puddle of birth fluids and later the second lamb. Fortunately the industry wide change to intensive rotational grazing saw those steep areas fenced off for separate grazing. This has led to much less incidence of rejection as twinners are excluded from such steep paddocks.
Being very interested in reasons for lamb mortality assisted by our 2000 fully recorded flock, I concluded that there was no genetic influence by the absence of repeat ewes and daughters of offending ewes in our modern Romneys.
There is a difference in "mothering desire" between ewes. Some ewes have climbed into my ute following me when I've gone back behind the wheel holding twins to get more ear tags or whatever when I have run out. Some ewes bulldozed me over when squatting down holding twins and triplets when tagging at birth. Others hang about but remain quiet just watching the procedure. I have seen ewes that I thought were very enthusiastic mothers initially rejecting one later, so the problem doesn't relate to lack of mothering behaviour, but probably to a driver of lamb recognition during the bonding process. All these ewes had a ton of milk and had 5 - 10 cm of good pasture underfoot.

 

[exmoor dave]

Rejection of one twin in any age group of ewes can occur if there is interruption in the bonding process in those vital minutes after birth.
Like many NZ farmers, I suffered such frustrations on stormy nights when all sheep sought shelter thereby increasing the stocking rate in a particular area where ewes and particularly young lambs were crossing the birth sites confusing ewes with new born lambs on the ground.
The other significant cause was twinners lambing on very steep hills where the first lamb slid away down hill and the ewe remained preoccupied at the birth site due to a puddle of birth fluids and later the second lamb. Fortunately the industry wide change to intensive rotational grazing saw those steep areas fenced off for separate grazing. This has led to much less incidence of rejection as twinners are excluded from such steep paddocks.
Being very interested in reasons for lamb mortality assisted by our 2000 fully recorded flock, I concluded that there was no genetic influence by the absence of repeat ewes and daughters of offending ewes in our modern Romneys.
There is a difference in "mothering desire" between ewes. Some ewes have climbed into my ute following me when I've gone back behind the wheel holding twins to get more ear tags or whatever when I have run out. Some ewes bulldozed me over when squatting down holding twins and triplets when tagging at birth. Others hang about but remain quiet just watching the procedure. I have seen ewes that I thought were very enthusiastic mothers initially rejecting one later, so the problem doesn't relate to lack of mothering behaviour, but probably to a driver of lamb recognition during the bonding process. All these ewes had a ton of milk and had 5 - 10 cm of good pasture underfoot.

Thanks for ghe explanation GO,
do you think there's any weight in the idea that ewes will reject a lamb they know isn't quite "right"?


Also, is there any possible link between distance to & availability water souces and increases in miss-mothering /rejections?

 

[Global ovine]

Thanks for ghe explanation GO,
do you think there's any weight in the idea that ewes will reject a lamb they know isn't quite "right"?


Also, is there any possible link between distance to & availability water souces and increases in miss-mothering /rejections?

First question answer; no. They will "love" anything that they think is their lamb, even freaks that breathe and move but may not get up off the ground. That is why such lamb's skins are so useful for fostering on a viable spare.

Second; I don't think so. Thousands of ewes annually lamb out on hills here and hang around the birth site for 24 - 48 hrs before they take their lambs down to creeks where drinking water is available. Mothering is a very strong desire to ewes that have not gone through prolonged birth trauma.
However some ewes are not good "talkers" to their lambs. Others are constantly making little noises thereby keeping their litter close to them. Those absent minded mothers that don't keep the kids in tow are more often to drop one off early and I have recorded as having lower litter weaning weights. My former scanner, the late Richard Chantler, was adamant that such "non-talkative" ewes were the ones that foxes followed as they were inattentive to their lambs. But predators not a NZ challenge.

I guess if ewes are lambed indoors and have a series of other ewes and lambs and human interference adding to confusion between birth and being put out into a field, they could decide to reject one once they are no longer confined and have space to work things out.

 

[exmoor dave]

First question answer; no. They will "love" anything that they think is their lamb, even freaks that breathe and move but may not get up off the ground. That is why such lamb's skins are so useful for fostering on a viable spare.

Second; I don't think so. Thousands of ewes annually lamb out on hills here and hang around the birth site for 24 - 48 hrs before they take their lambs down to creeks where drinking water is available. Mothering is a very strong desire to ewes that have not gone through prolonged birth trauma.
However some ewes are not good "talkers" to their lambs. Others are constantly making little noises thereby keeping their litter close to them. Those absent minded mothers that don't keep the kids in tow are more often to drop one off early and I have recorded as having lower litter weaning weights. My former scanner, the late Richard Chantler, was adamant that such "non-talkative" ewes were the ones that foxes followed as they were inattentive to their lambs. But predators not a NZ challenge.

I guess if ewes are lambed indoors and have a series of other ewes and lambs and human interference adding to confusion between birth and being put out into a field, they could decide to reject one once they are no longer confined and have space to work things out.

I would completely agree about talkative ewes it's always nice to see ewes who keep up a constant dialogue with their lambs.

Funny enough we usually get next to no rejections indoor lambing, providing no muddle ups have happened, but twins are often penned before/as they lambed or immediately after lambing, then moved in to plywood pens for 2 days, once turned out, rejections are pretty much non-existent.
Saying that though, we're up to 3 rejections now with the inside ewes, all 3 ewes penned as they showed signs of lambing, so no muddle ups and the ewes lambed themselves. Yet one ewe has rejected a twin and two ewes have rejected 2 triplets each, really for no apparent reason.
Likewise with the outside ewes, in most cases the rejected lamb has acually still been with the ewe!

Think we're up to 10 rejections now, 2 of which are first time lambers, 3 older ewes have previous form on their records, leaving 5 other mature ewes.
All the same breed, no such problems with the mules or suffolk x ewes.
Frustrating to the extreme to say the least!

 

[jondear]

We’ve got a Field called Birmingham, any problems and they’re threatened with the “you’ll go to Birmingham if not” only do it once

I thought it was sent to Coventry!

 

[shearerlad]

Just the 20% stuff you dip navels with pour some on the cows back 30ml ish I just tip some on doesn’t have to be exact wait a couple of days and she will be away put a drop on the calf while you are on 10ml or so in front of the tail head it soaks in through the skin we do loads here it will be iodine deficiency

Be careful with iodine. Recent research by the Mordun is seeing a link between over dosing with iodine and cryptosporidium infection.