Is there no money in small direct drills?

[Oldmacdonald]

All these fancy machines from Horsch, Kuhn, Horizon - great big trailed things with a 5 tonne hopper

Does the technology not still work in a 3 metre, mounted version with 500kg hopper?

 

[nonemouse]

All these fancy machines from Horsch, Kuhn, Horizon - great big trailed things with a 5 tonne hopper

Does the technology not still work in a 3 metre, mounted version with 500kg hopper?

Still plenty of 3m machines out there, Ryetec, weaving, t-sem, dale, sumo, jd to name a few of top of my head

 

[E_B]

 

[Pistonbroke]

Haven't got one of any kind yet but guessing that the weight needed to work well is a limiting factor for mounted. 3ton + is a lot bouncing around

 

[steveR]

Haven't got one of any kind yet but guessing that the weight needed to work well is a limiting factor for mounted. 3ton + is a lot bouncing around

Even my diddy little Aitchison Grass Farmer is a heavy lump.

Needs approx 25hp/metre to pull it, but no way would a 75hp tractor lift a 3m machine.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Even my diddy little Aitchison Grass Farmer is a heavy lump.

Needs approx 25hp/metre to pull it, but no way would a 75hp tractor lift a 3m machine.

Are you sure? 105 hp pulls my Weaving 4m and not at a stretch either

 

[Pistonbroke]

Are you sure? 105 hp pulls my Weaving 4m and not at a stretch either

Pulling not the same as lifting

 

[steveR]

Are you sure? 105 hp pulls my Weaving 4m and not at a stretch either

Just going on what Aitchison themselves quote. Obviously will depend hugely on soil type and condition.

My point was more the weight aspect.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Just going on what Aitchison themselves quote. Obviously will depend hugely on soil type and condition.

My point was more the weight aspect.

Perhaps they are being a bit conservative then.

You're right about the conditions. We're on high clay content and fairly flat which is ok if it's ok but you soon notice the slopes if you shouldn't be out there.

 

[Two Tone]

There are plenty of 3 metre wide mounted Direct drills available. But to get penetration they are quite heavy and take some lifting. You also need decent hydraulics if the fan is hydraulically driven, which can slow down the lifting of the drill at each end of the field. Especially if you are trying to operate the bout markers at the same time.

My Weaving GD3000M takes no pulling and my 1996 Ford 8340 could manage it quite happily except that its hydraulics can’t cope. So I use a NH 7050, purely because it has superior hydraulics. Looks like overkill, but for the fact that I only run it at a max of 1500 engine RPM and It will drill for 4 days on a tankful of diesel.

Other advantages of a 3 metre wide drill, holding a tonne of seed is that you never need to take seed to the field. Always returning to the yard to refill and grab some lunch or tea at the same time. No complicated folding/unfolding necessary.

On most farms, whatever the ploughing/cultivation tractor was, will happily cope with a Direct drill, but will do far less hours and use one hell of a lot less fuel establishing crops. In my case, crop establishment fuel usage is 1/8th of what it was conveniently.

If you were used to a 4 metre conventional drill, you’ll find that a 3 metre Direct drill is quite suitable for your needs.
You won’t have waisted time on any previous cultivations, which in itself will allow you drilling into more ideal, undisturbed soil conditions.
On top of which, you can start drilling 2 weeks earlier in the autumn, allowing extra time for the crop to establish in what is not a conventional “all soil moved” seedbed. And because so much less soil is moved, the weeds are not disturbed and stay asleep.

 

[clbarclay]

I enquired about boss disc units from Sly at a groundswell and the ballpark figure then was £1700 each. I think the costs are such that a lot of the smaller farmers are put off and the main market is for larger models, with more width to spread the rest of the costs over. The knock on is that for many new drills if you want a smaller model, it is effective the large model with the wings clipped. This means it's bigger, heavier and materials costing more than a smaller model needed to be, though saves a bit on design and manufacturing costs.

 

[Simon C]

View attachment 1029541

How do you get on with the Erth for arable drilling? I have often looked at them and thought they would do a great job, undercutting discs, proven vaddy engineering and simple like my Sim-Tech. With billiard table flay fields, there really isn't the need for depth control on each disc.

 

[Flatlander]

How do you get on with the Erth for arable drilling? I have often looked at them and thought they would do a great job, undercutting discs, proven vaddy engineering and simple like my Sim-Tech. With billiard table flay fields, there really isn't the need for depth control on each disc.

My farm is about as flat as you’ll ever find and the independent depth control on each row shows when compared to even a flexing frame design. Cereals are more forgiving as far as depth goes but canola and soys like accurate placement and for that alone I can cut seed rates.

 

[E_B]

How do you get on with the Erth for arable drilling? I have often looked at them and thought they would do a great job, undercutting discs, proven vaddy engineering and simple like my Sim-Tech. With billiard table flay fields, there really isn't the need for depth control on each disc.

Only done one arable field with it, which was wheat after oats on sandy loam, with the straw removed. But got good establishment:

This was about three weeks ago. Can't comment on hair pinning as we bale everything but in the previous crop of oats was some bad blackgrass on the headlands so I mowed them. With all the shunting about I flattened a bit of crop in the corners etc, which the drill sowed into fine and established well. Incredibly simple, cost effective. Depth control is set off single acting rams that you lock off once happy with the depth, takes a bit of faffing to get right but after a while you sort of learn how much ram to have exposed depending on the depth you want. The three rams across the drill allow for a little bit of contour following, each metre raises independently to the next. No control box to worry about, just a box on the drill showing fan speed. Maximum depth you can achieve is about 2 inches. Don't think you'd want to put beans through it as might block in the narrow coulters. But the above wheat at 200kg was no problem.

Will hopefully be drilling a bit of AB9 into last year's AB9 standing residue in a couple of weeks if you want to see one going. South Norfolk. Easy land but with a little bit of clay on a steep hill.

 

[Drillman]

There are plenty of 3 metre wide mounted Direct drills available. But to get penetration they are quite heavy and take some lifting.

On most farms, whatever the ploughing/cultivation tractor was, will happily cope with a Direct drill, but will do far less hours and use one hell of a lot less fuel establishing crops. In my case, crop establishment fuel usage is 1/8th of what it was conveniently.

If you were used to a 4 metre conventional drill, you’ll find that a 3 metre Direct drill is quite suitable for your needs.
You won’t have waisted time on any previous cultivations, which in itself will allow you drilling into more ideal, undisturbed soil conditions.
On top of which, you can start drilling 2 weeks earlier in the autumn, allowing extra time for the crop to establish in what is not a conventional “all soil moved” seedbed. And because so much less soil is moved, the weeds are not disturbed and stay asleep.

now I’ve given this some thought, And don’t think a 3m direct drill would cover the ground in a season our 4m combi can.

It’s logistics, one man band doing other things as well and sometimes waiting for seed to arrive and a tight drilling window in the north east at higher altitude.

4m combi would have to stay due to contract commitments as well. And really not sure that the tractor that runs the 4m combi is capable of hoisting a mounted 4m direct or strip till drill about.

And looking locally the strip till crops look better than the direct drilled ones round us. Which suggests the heavier strip till claydon type machine may be the way forwards for us.

Then there’s the purchase cost. Even with the grant allowance earlier in the year a basic 3m direct drill which appears to be little more than a pigtail drag with a hopper on top is an eye watering amount of money on a smaller area. A 4m is totally out the question new and thin on the ground second hand.

it’s a dilemma I’ve been mulling over for a while and not one I’ve found a solution for yet.

well there is a solution in my mind, a claydon type machine, trailed and pullable by a 165hp tractor on hilly going!

is there such a thing?

All for sub £8k as that’s what the combi cost me!

 

[nick...]

Only done one arable field with it, which was wheat after oats on sandy loam, with the straw removed. But got good establishment:

This was about three weeks ago. Can't comment on hair pinning as we bale everything but in the previous crop of oats was some bad blackgrass on the headlands so I mowed them. With all the shunting about I flattened a bit of crop in the corners etc, which the drill sowed into fine and established well. Incredibly simple, cost effective. Depth control is set off single acting rams that you lock off once happy with the depth, takes a bit of faffing to get right but after a while you sort of learn how much ram to have exposed depending on the depth you want. The three rams across the drill allow for a little bit of contour following, each metre raises independently to the next. No control box to worry about, just a box on the drill showing fan speed. Maximum depth you can achieve is about 2 inches. Don't think you'd want to put beans through it as might block in the narrow coulters. But the above wheat at 200kg was no problem.

Will hopefully be drilling a bit of AB9 into last year's AB9 standing residue in a couple of weeks if you want to see one going. South Norfolk. Easy land but with a little bit of clay on a steep hill.

I’d be interested in seeing the machine working if that’s convenient or possible.im also in South norfolk so not far away
nick...

 

[steveR]

now I’ve given this some thought, And don’t think a 3m direct drill would cover the ground in a season our 4m combi can.

It’s logistics, one man band doing other things as well and sometimes waiting for seed to arrive and a tight drilling window in the north east at higher altitude.

4m combi would have to stay due to contract commitments as well. And really not sure that the tractor that runs the 4m combi is capable of hoisting a mounted 4m direct or strip till drill about.

All for sub £8k as that’s what the combi cost me!

And your diesel bill this Spring...?

 

[clbarclay]

a basic 3m direct drill which appears to be little more than a pigtail drag with a hopper on top

All for sub £8k as that’s what the combi cost me!

There is you sub 8k direct drill.

 

[Drillman]

There is you sub 8k direct drill.

Really?

last one I priced was 3x that and really not convinced it would do what I wanted either.

 

[Drillman]

And your diesel bill this Spring...?

£247.50 for all spring cultivation and drilling. At home.

15 litre/ha for the cultivator and 10 litre/ha for the combi drill

approx 11 hectare in total

fuel bought at 75p/litre

yes I could use a lot less with a direct drill but assuming I used 25% of the above I make a saving of less than £200 which don’t go very far towards a direct drill Sadly.

and with current cereal prices using an establishment system that I know works all I need is 6-700kg more grain across the whole area to cover the fuel cost.

looking at the above figures it seems my cheapest option is actually to stay as I am and do nowt.

However the current drill won’t last forever covering the acres it does, neither will the cultivator we currently use and as for the plough we currently own the Less said about it the better…. and gotta look at alternatives. Which brings me back to the original dilemma as per my earlier post.