is this really 21st century conservatism?

spin cycle

Member
Location
north norfolk
i've voted conservative the last two elections....but this manifesto?,,,,really?

i thought 'conservatism' was about rewarding work...giving a better start to your kids and passing on what was passed to you.....sure you pay tax to fund health/education and the safety net of a welfare state....but this shambles of tory dementia tax?

also an uncosted manifesto....an unprecedented 'u'turn in middle of an election campaign......two 'u' turns in 6 months after may's failed raid on the self employed

is she really 'strong and stable'?...or is it 'weak and wobbly'?

is this really the best the conservatives i used to vote for can do?
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
The social care situation is a complicated dilemma though isn't it?
Mrs May's original policy was true conservatism before it was watered down with the cap, which was some kind of sop to people who think they are conservatives but aren't.

My generation is "too busy" to look after granny so expects somebody else to pay for it, then expects to inherit granny's house with no strings attached.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

If you look after your relatives as people always used to do then you won't need to eat into their savings to pay for social care. It's about self reliance rather than expecting the state to provide everything.

My family managed to keep granny at home right until the end except for a few stays in hospital that nearly killed her with neglect.

11 years unable to swallow solid food, choking, infections and getting her to a commode often a bit too late to avoid the inevitable accident then clearing up the mess 24/7. That kind of work couldn't be measured in pounds, or the value of her house. It was done because she was family, not by me I hasten to add, but by a heroic member of my family.

I am not saying everybody can just drop everything and become a 24/7 carer for elderly relatives and some do have exceedingly difficult and complex needs, but please appreciate that somebody has to do it and if it's somebody else then it is bound to come at a price.

As I say, it's complicated and I don't have all the answers but I think Mrs May's solution was probably a reasonable one and in line with Conservative thinking.

A lot of people who think they are Conservatives don't understand the meaning of the word.
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
Life's complex, I wouldn't trust a leader that did claim to have the right solution each and every time. There has to be a certain amount of continual adjustment and refinement, rather than pig headed dogma.
 
Conservatives have been caught with their pants down trying to shaft the public.

And we have the continued denial of a problem with Globalism and tax dodging from all parties.

FFS just stick a sales tax on in the form of increased VAT rate, HMG gets the tax and the public get a red flag not to buy their goods. They'll either end their ways or face a sales slump.

Chocolate biscuits & clothes have a different VAT rate so I'm sure they can create some for tax dodgers.
 

spin cycle

Member
Location
north norfolk
The social care situation is a complicated dilemma though isn't it?
Mrs May's original policy was true conservatism before it was watered down with the cap, which was some kind of sop to people who think they are conservatives but aren't.

My generation is "too busy" to look after granny so expects somebody else to pay for it, then expects to inherit granny's house with no strings attached.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

If you look after your relatives as people always used to do then you won't need to eat into their savings to pay for social care. It's about self reliance rather than expecting the state to provide everything.

My family managed to keep granny at home right until the end except for a few stays in hospital that nearly killed her with neglect.

11 years unable to swallow solid food, choking, infections and getting her to a commode often a bit too late to avoid the inevitable accident then clearing up the mess 24/7. That kind of work couldn't be measured in pounds, or the value of her house. It was done because she was family, not by me I hasten to add, but by a heroic member of my family.

I am not saying everybody can just drop everything and become a 24/7 carer for elderly relatives and some do have exceedingly difficult and complex needs, but please appreciate that somebody has to do it and if it's somebody else then it is bound to come at a price.

As I say, it's complicated and I don't have all the answers but I think Mrs May's solution was probably a reasonable one and in line with Conservative thinking.

A lot of people who think they are Conservatives don't understand the meaning of the word.


.looking after granny is absolutely the conservative way....i look after my mum..

i disagree that the dementia tax is 'true conservatism'....we pay taxes all over the show....look at insurance premium tax...10 effing %......yet the city has corporation tax cuts.......12.5 billion on foreign aid....more than enough to fund social care....what happened to charity starting at home?

the city again.....when they're in trouble they get interest free bailouts....but when times are good they get left alone?.....a small financial transaction tax?...why not?

whats the point of saving if at the end of your life the state takes it back or uses it to means test you against ppl who havn't bothered
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
whats the point of saving if at the end of your life the state takes it back or uses it to means test you against ppl who havn't bothered
be good to here an answer to that, you can slave all your life and while the chap in the next room that did bugger all except pee it again the wall gets the same care they will be taking your money
 

turbo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
lincs
be good to here an answer to that, you can slave all your life and while the chap in the next room that did bugger all except pee it again the wall gets the same care they will be taking your money
Heard some pillock from the Labour Party yesterday say that those that had not saved a penny had payed more tax throughout their life than the people that had saved to hand some over to their children
 

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
they try to tell you to save money then penalise you for doing just that

The government doesn't want you to save, they need you to spend as much as possible and better still if you can also borrow large amounts to spend, that's the nature of a consumer economy. And so long as you can keep servicing these debts and they can keep tax low and inflate the vale of property they and the public are happy, what's not to like, until the wheels eventually come off the wagon.
 

spin cycle

Member
Location
north norfolk
The government doesn't want you to save, they need you to spend as much as possible and better still if you can also borrow large amounts to spend, that's the nature of a consumer economy. And so long as you can keep servicing these debts and they can keep tax low and inflate the vale of property they and the public are happy, what's not to like, until the wheels eventually come off the wagon.

i hope it happens soon
 

DrWazzock

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
.looking after granny is absolutely the conservative way....i look after my mum..

i disagree that the dementia tax is 'true conservatism'....we pay taxes all over the show....look at insurance premium tax...10 effing %......yet the city has corporation tax cuts.......12.5 billion on foreign aid....more than enough to fund social care....what happened to charity starting at home?

the city again.....when they're in trouble they get interest free bailouts....but when times are good they get left alone?.....a small financial transaction tax?...why not?

whats the point of saving if at the end of your life the state takes it back or uses it to means test you against ppl who havn't bothered

I agree with a lot of what you are saying and about what's the point of saving when those who haven't saved get state funding anyway. What's d point if working when those who don't get paid anyway? What's the point of living a careful life when those who have 10 ten kids with no means other means of support get state handouts etc. But the only way round this is to leave those who haven't saved in the gutter and that doesn't seem to be acceptable either.

It's got to the point where there isn't any spare money left nowadays. But it does make me question why we need to spend 132 billion on HS2 when we can't mend potholes in the road. I know schools locally are making big cuts in their budgets. It's a serious situation.
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
The social care situation is a complicated dilemma though isn't it?
Mrs May's original policy was true conservatism before it was watered down with the cap, which was some kind of sop to people who think they are conservatives but aren't.

My generation is "too busy" to look after granny so expects somebody else to pay for it, then expects to inherit granny's house with no strings attached.

You can't have your cake and eat it.

If you look after your relatives as people always used to do then you won't need to eat into their savings to pay for social care. It's about self reliance rather than expecting the state to provide everything.

My family managed to keep granny at home right until the end except for a few stays in hospital that nearly killed her with neglect.

11 years unable to swallow solid food, choking, infections and getting her to a commode often a bit too late to avoid the inevitable accident then clearing up the mess 24/7. That kind of work couldn't be measured in pounds, or the value of her house. It was done because she was family, not by me I hasten to add, but by a heroic member of my family.

I am not saying everybody can just drop everything and become a 24/7 carer for elderly relatives and some do have exceedingly difficult and complex needs, but please appreciate that somebody has to do it and if it's somebody else then it is bound to come at a price.

As I say, it's complicated and I don't have all the answers but I think Mrs May's solution was probably a reasonable one and in line with Conservative thinking.

A lot of people who think they are Conservatives don't understand the meaning of the word.

Really cannot see what the problem is and why dementia has been highlighted as something unique. Its just another terminal illness that should be treated in the same way as terminal cancer. Your care should be covered by an insurance policy in the same way as terminal cancer. We also need to amend the right to die with dignity. If we treated animals in the way we treat our elderly then we would be prosecuted for cruelty. In my council tax bill the adult social care element is already 4% of the total bill which is conveniently forgotten by politicians.
 

Muck Spreader

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin
Really cannot see what the problem is and why dementia has been highlighted as something unique. Its just another terminal illness that should be treated in the same way as terminal cancer. Your care should be covered by an insurance policy in the same way as terminal cancer. We also need to amend the right to die with dignity. If we treated animals in the way we treat our elderly then we would be prosecuted for cruelty. In my council tax bill the adult social care element is already 4% of the total bill which is conveniently forgotten by politicians.

The problem is that Dementia is a hugely expensive set of labour intensive diseases to treat and that treatment can go on for decades, partly because we are now very good at keeping the body functioning long beyond it's normal lifespan. It's a set of diseases we often die with, not necessarily from.
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
The problem is that Dementia is a hugely expensive set of labour intensive diseases to treat and that treatment can go on for decades, partly because we are now very good at keeping the body functioning long beyond it's normal lifespan. It's a set of diseases we often die with, not necessarily from.

Dementia is not a disease its just a different way of living given a particular disability. Like most disabilities once the problem is understood society can take action to alleviate the problem.

One positive solution a dementia village.

http://gizmodo.com/inside-an-amazing-village-designed-just-for-people-with-1526062373

If you realise your going to struggle with dementia then why not become part of a dementia village rather than buying into sheltered accomodation. Seems logical to me.
 

RobFZS

Member
We need to get shut of that national debt, the interest payments alone on that chunk are crippling us, 45 billion and rising each year , possibly doubled by 2020
 

Pasty

Member
Location
Devon
The problem is that house prices has risen so far that many older people are sitting on a fortune while their children work hard for nothing and have no hope aside from waiting on inheritance.

I can see both sides of this. If there was some way of normalising house prices over time, that would solve a whole lot of problems we face.
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

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