Is Trump Right About Free Trade

Martin Holden

Member
Trade
Location
Cheltenham
As far as I know all UK Steel foundaries have closed because David Cameron, our ex Prime Minister, didn't bother putting tariffs on the recent Chinese Steel dumped across the world.

All we have left is Indian owned plants that recycle waste.

David Cameron ran off in a huff and resigned the shiny faced coward.
You are right about DC! He was the little school boy that didn’t like the way the game was panning out, so took his ball home! Since has dissapeared to earn a fortune on the speaking circuit I believe!! To an extent and being a small country we have done nothing to protect our industries leaving them to the vagaries of the market. No doubt China have stolen a lot of technology yet not paid for it in real terms. It’s a mad world and somewhere amongst all this economics is active!
 

Martin Holden

Member
Trade
Location
Cheltenham
Slightly off topic, but I always wonder what China’s economic balance sheet is like?? They have poured millions of yen into their economy but from where? Are they really a sound nation economically. If the West stopped buying from them, wouldn’t they be in a spot of bother?
 
It seems to me that free trade has led to globalisation.
Globalisation prevents countries from planning at a local level and allows large international companies to make huge sums of money. Governments lose funds through no tariffs and very little tax paid.
China has generally abused the system. Dumping steel on the world market and starting / stopping buying dairy products etc.
Economists love numbers but they don't tell the whole story. Free trade always has hidden costs.
Isn't it as simple as deciding whether you want big business to have your money or your government?
I don't know if Trump is right but I do believe he has a much more valid argument than most will admit.

He has no argument.

Countries can only prosper from trade. Anyone who thinks otherwise has no business trying his hand in politics in the 21st century. Isolationist countries wither and die. The effect of sanctions is well demonstrated.

The USA is not large enough to thrive on it's own. If you suddenly stopped all US trade tomorrow, they sure as sin cannot eat all their own corn and soya production. They cannot import half the electronic components they require. Overnight, over half the capital in their stock exchanges is locked forever.

If governments cannot work out how to collect tax, that is a secondary issue. The UK taxes companies on all their activities that occur on UK territory. The results of the Apple and Amazon select committee inquiries demonstrated this ably.

Dumping is a separate issue.

Plenty of small and medium businesses benefit from overseas trade.
 
Slightly off topic, but I always wonder what China’s economic balance sheet is like?? They have poured millions of yen into their economy but from where? Are they really a sound nation economically. If the West stopped buying from them, wouldn’t they be in a spot of bother?

This is a country where it's citizens are basically forbidden from taking their money overseas. The amounts permitted are tightly controlled. Hence the wave of Chinese investors looking for somewhere safe to put their monies, away from the hands of their government.

Russia is no different.
 
Ha ha ha
You are deluded, U.S. is self sufficient in most if not all it requires, food,oil,energy, all that corn maybe just make more ethanol.

Trump is carrying out his promise, China dumping below cost of production/theft for years of US

Ha ha ha. Your entire corn crop into ethanol, your petrochemical industry sunj overnight. You dont have enough consumers chum. You have not thought this through have you.
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
He has no argument.

Countries can only prosper from trade. Anyone who thinks otherwise has no business trying his hand in politics in the 21st century. Isolationist countries wither and die. The effect of sanctions is well demonstrated.

The USA is not large enough to thrive on it's own. If you suddenly stopped all US trade tomorrow, they sure as sin cannot eat all their own corn and soya production. They cannot import half the electronic components they require. Overnight, over half the capital in their stock exchanges is locked forever.

If governments cannot work out how to collect tax, that is a secondary issue. The UK taxes companies on all their activities that occur on UK territory. The results of the Apple and Amazon select committee inquiries demonstrated this ably.

Dumping is a separate issue.

Plenty of small and medium businesses benefit from overseas trade.
I haven't ever heard of trade being stopped. As far as I'm aware it is a recalculation of tariffs to make things "more aligned" and to steer the home economy to a more productive future.
Trade agreements are generally set to have a "equal value" to all members. As circumstances and economies change they really ought to be re-assessed.
The US, like the UK, has a huge trade deficit and therefore agreements will generally not be in their favour. It is because of this, that after all the posturing and shouting, the US will have a much better deal.
I would hope and expect the same to be the case for the UK.
 
Once again the welfare reciepents whith higher tariffs trying to be the champion of the free market...pity you wouldnt participate in it...talk on a forum is cheap.

China has restrictions...no sh*t sherlock...look how quick that country grew...you think that comes with out growing pains...get real.

Russia...check there debt levels of govt and citizens...then check the eu and usa zones..even aus per person of personal debt.....

You will find my friend they may seem poor to you but net wealth may not be that far behind...if not dead on...especially in the ag sector where debt has sky rocketed...house hold debt sky rocketed...

Its easy to sit there and say look at the poor russians...from you flash car that you borrowed...in a house or farm that is in debted and with fat access to credit cards.

You got no argument...its the usual lies of a welfare recipient...holds no weight.

Ant...
 

phillipe

Member
Once again the welfare reciepents whith higher tariffs trying to be the champion of the free market...pity you wouldnt participate in it...talk on a forum is cheap.

China has restrictions...no sh*t sherlock...look how quick that country grew...you think that comes with out growing pains...get real.

Russia...check there debt levels of govt and citizens...then check the eu and usa zones..even aus per person of personal debt.....

You will find my friend they may seem poor to you but net wealth may not be that far behind...if not dead on...especially in the ag sector where debt has sky rocketed...house hold debt sky rocketed...

Its easy to sit there and say look at the poor russians...from you flash car that you borrowed...in a house or farm that is in debted and with fat access to credit cards.

You got no argument...its the usual lies of a welfare recipient...holds no weight.

Ant...
Theres the rub some of us do not bave a debt anywhere ,so we can comment
 

Jackov Altraids

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Anyone can make statistics support whatever argument they wish.
It is very important for an economy to be secure, diverse and sustainable but this is hard to measure. Consolidation of industries into a handful of global locations keeps things cheap [to start with] but isn't secure , diverse or sustainable.
Following a road to communism or free market capitalism will take you to the same place. People are beginning to see this and even if they don't want to change direction, they don't want to go any further.
People talk of the rise in nationalism when it is only a push against globalisation.
This is why Trump got elected and he is trying to address it.
 
The notion that happiness is tied to money makes me laugh...unless you have the satitstics like the eu, your losing...your poor...

This is only the thoughts of greedy people who are unhappy...where the only thing they think will make them happy is more money...

So what if your economy is the size of new york...aus is the size of vegas economy...

Its has no bearing on if you are rich...what you make of your life makes you rich..not those pieces of paper stacked up in a bank account...

You have the disease of greed and money....your infected

Ant...
 

caveman

Member
Location
East Sussex.
The notion that happiness is tied to money makes me laugh...unless you have the satitstics like the eu, your losing...your poor...

This is only the thoughts of greedy people who are unhappy...where the only thing they think will make them happy is more money...

So what if your economy is the size of new york...aus is the size of vegas economy...

Its has no bearing on if you are rich...what you make of your life makes you rich..not those pieces of paper stacked up in a bank account...

You have the disease of greed and money....your infected

Ant...

Hahaha.
Your assumption is unbelievable.
 
The Russian economy is borked. Half the country has no infrastructure or even metalled roads much less decent education or healthcare.

I have a Russian friend who is the son of a government minister. Where was his son educated? England. Where is their main residence? England. Where do they bank? England. Why? Because Putin and the goons can take anything you have any time in Russia.

UK debt has grown like many countries. The problem is that many people including a lot of TFF cannot distinguish between conventional debt and government debt. The national debt is held in the form of bonds and gilts. A form of paper IOUs offered to investors who see them as a very very safe investment. This indicates that people have confidence in the UK economy as the government offer bonds on terms that suit them as borrowers. This is a huge cry from being unable to issue bonds and having to borrow from the ECB or IMF.

People seem to think it is a trade deficit that causes national debt. That is not the case. What private individuals or businesses elect to buy or where is there business.

Also as I have said a trillion times before, it matters not a jot where something is assembled it is who owns the IP and sells it who makes the margin. You would think a forum populated by farmers would largely recognise that. Maybe we should have all gone to the LSE rather than drank ourselves stupid in the union bar at the agricultural establishment we attended. Ironic because over 50 percent of this forum now discusses methods or ideas that fly in the face of the old school stuff we were taught.
 
The entire Russian economy is apparently no bigger than that of New York.


Is it ?

Can New York go buy Russia ? Obviously it cannot
Can New York pay Russia to do its bidding ? Obviously it cannot

Pretty obvious both the figures are wrong and the way you are quantifying things are wrong

The average house price in the UK is astronomical doesn't mean you can trade in your house and buy many elsewhere, nor does it mean you are rich all over the world.

It's just a number in an economy which .. to be honest I think many of the Western Econmies have a massive amount of fake money in them.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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    Votes: 79 42.0%
  • Up to 25%

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  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.0%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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