It's good to know what Government adviser thinks about UK Ag.

[Courier]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45887829

"He said agriculture as a whole was a low productivity sector, about 40% of the national average.

"So if you are wanting to make the UK a high wage, high productivity economy, which we generally are, it's not clear that making life very easy for agriculture - giving them privileged access to labour - is a way to achieve that.

"That really wouldn't be the end of the earth for the country as a whole. Obviously the NFU are not going to be very enthusiastic about it."

The Migration Advisory Committee has suggested forcing farmers to pay a higher minimum wage in order to encourage increases in productivity - or charging them for every additional foreign worker they employ."

 

[Bogweevil]

Robotics, it is the way ahead, gonna be a bogger to pick raspberries though.

 

[Steevo]

You almost get the feeling that being aspirational has turned the government and in turn some of the public into snobs who think they are better than others. It’s no wonder our waste, and dirty industries are being exported abroad whilst creating nature reserves, and an iddylic Countryfile-esque existance.

“We only eat organic veg....not those grown in muddy fields with all that dirt.” type of thinking.

Out of sight, out of mind. Out of touch?

 

[Nick Adams]

It is true though. Over shepherded livestock, too much time and money spent on transport - especially low value material; muck, slurry, silage etc. Wrapping large quantities of silage instead of clamping, we're over capitalised - won't share/hire machinery, recreational tillage, over use of pesticides. We could all be more productive/efficient. Might help if we weren't having to watch our cross compliant backs.

 

[Princess Pooper]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45887829


The Migration Advisory Committee has suggested forcing farmers to pay a higher minimum wage in order to encourage increases in productivity - or charging them for every additional foreign worker they employ."

They seem to miss the double point that a) many workers in the sectors where there have been a lot of migrant workers are paid piece rate. So productive workers do earn well above the minimum wage, but unfortunately the dossers also have to be paid the minimum wage even if their work is rubbish. b) If farmers have to increase wages and they can't increase the price of their produce they just go bust /sector collapses so we import more food hey wow that was a good move wasn't it!

 

[Global ovine]

Seasonal worker demand is a huge problem in all first world countries. This is particularly acute in perishables.
Despite many gov'ts making laws to reduce unemployment, seasonal crises still dominate many industries.
Meat processing by several NZ companies rely mainly on Pacifica workers. The NZ viticulture and pip and stone fruit industries are more and more dependent on Vanuatuan workers.
I see no shame in employing such people if they are prepared to work honestly and reliably as it benefits both our industries and their home economies. I do feel shame with the local minority who won't get off their arses, would fail a drug test or have no work ethic.
Primary producers are price takers, so have to cut their cloth accordingly.

 

[yellow belly]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45720390

government say farmers should not have low paid migrant workers

well who is going to do this work

cropping flowers
cutting colis
roguing black grass

they say we need a higher paid more skille workforce

many of the farm and veg packing jobs cannot be mechanised
or if they can be they need banned chemicals or seed that can be sprayed by a higher shilled more productive work force

eg black grass roguing cereals could be avoided by the use of gm roundup ready osr as the previous crop the crop is then 100percent free of black grass as the highly skilled and paid sprayer operater does the job

gm rr suger beet as grown in the usa cold do the same for a cereal crop preceded by sugar beet

when I worked in the flower cropping field the workers were all white English and highly skilled could earn double the weekly agricultural wage this is now done by migrant workers
strawberry picking and colicutting is harder to mechanise than brussel sprout harvesting

 

[Hindsight]

Political ideology is driving this. Have noticed in past few weeks the free marketer Leave groups have raised issue of so called Low Productivity in UK economy. And in particular have referenced this to 'cheap' European labour in 'low skill' jobs such as agriculture. As I always say 'someone has to collect my dustbin'

The ideological approach of the Leave leaders is to raise incomes for the lower paid as a Brexit dividend. And as the Migration Advisory group and similar want to restrict immigration the approach is to make it impossible for those industries that utilise this labour to operate.

Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

 

[glasshouse]

Political ideology is driving this. Have noticed in past few weeks the free marketer Leave groups have raised issue of so called Low Productivity in UK economy. And in particular have referenced this to 'cheap' European labour in 'low skill' jobs such as agriculture. As I always say 'someone has to collect my dustbin'

The ideological approach of the Leave leaders is to raise incomes for the lower paid as a Brexit dividend. And as the Migration Advisory group and similar want to restrict immigration the approach is to make it impossible for those industries that utilise this labour to operate.

Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

Migrant labour has stagnated wages in a lot of manual jobs.
Like it or not, that is the truth.
Migrants also have few rights, so can be exploited by the unscrupulous.
Small family businesses run by owner and two or 3 men have been put out of business by the large military style operations using migrants.
Eg veg, fruit, eggs etc

 

[Angus]

Mr. Manning says, "... low productivity sector, about 40% of the national average", well I feel that is an insult to all who work very hard in the industry. Most farm workers and farmers that I know work far harder than," your average worker ".

Where does this 40% figure come from to give this statement some qualification?

The ," high wage high productivity economy " remark in the second paragraph of Couriers opening post and' " making life very easy for agriculture " is again wrong.

Can you have cheap food and high wages for the workers that produce the said food? I suggest the informed gentleman tries his hand doing these jobs that currently European migrants do, i. e. working cutting cauliflowers, or boning out meat in a cutting plant, Angus.

 

[Hindsight]

Migrant labour has stagnated wages in a lot of manual jobs.
Like it or not, that is the truth.
Migrants also have few rights, so can be exploited by the unscrupulous.
Small family businesses run by owner and two or 3 men have been put out of business by the large military style operations using migrants.
Eg veg, fruit, eggs etc

I concur with your observations. And as ever society has to decide which way to go. I anticipate a blind eye from the government. With imports of labour intensive items while Gove funds Universities to make robotic pickers. The main initial beneficiary of this policy will be Robotic Research.

 

[Clive]

Who used to do this work ?

When I grew up and we grew potatoes the grader and spud harvester was manned by locals, Housewives, semi employed odd jobbers between work etc there was no shortage and many were glad of the top up to household income

Where are they now ? Signing on probably because it pays bettter ?

The problem in the uk is the benefit system became to lucrative and easy. Work is optional for many and that’s what needs to change

 

[glasshouse]

The scale was

Who used to do this work ?

When I grew up and we grew potatoes the grader and spud harvester was manned by locals, Housewives, semi employed odd jobbers between work etc there was no shortage and many were glad of the top up to household income

Where are they now ? Signing on probably because it pays bettter ?

The problem in the uk is the benefit system became to lucrative and easy. Work is optional for many and that’s what needs to change

the scale was much smaller, with the farmer himself possibly wife and family out there picking with a handful of "regulars"
Those regualars earned good money, not the minimum wage

 

[glasshouse]

And remember, high productivity is another word for mass unemployment

 

[Hindsight]

Who used to do this work ?

When I grew up and we grew potatoes the grader and spud harvester was manned by locals, Housewives, semi employed odd jobbers between work etc there was no shortage and many were glad of the top up to household income

Where are they now ? Signing on probably because it pays bettter ?

The problem in the uk is the benefit system became to lucrative and easy. Work is optional for many and that’s what needs to change

I am firing from hip now without giving much thought but it is not the benefit system per se affecting 'casual labour' The key point being the term 'casual labour - ie labour that is just 'hanging about' most of these folk now have full time jobs - albeit many may be working the system as you may call it with 16 hour weeks to then access the benefit top ups. And this they are working in care homes, supermarkets etc - the service sector. The labour market is different to 30 /40 years ago when there were thousands of more farmers - take potatoes and look at the number of producers.

 

[fgc325j]

It is true though. Over shepherded livestock, too much time and money spent on transport - especially low value material; muck, slurry, silage etc. Wrapping large quantities of silage instead of clamping, we're over capitalised - won't share/hire machinery, recreational tillage, over use of pesticides. We could all be more productive/efficient. Might help if we weren't having to watch our cross compliant backs.

Hello, I always thought that the big plus with wrapped silage was the lack of effluent compared with clamp
silage, which has always been one of the worst pollutants when allowed to enter a water course.

 

[glasshouse]

I am firing from hip now without giving much thought but it is not the benefit system per se affecting 'casual labour' The key point being the term 'casual labour - ie labour that is just 'hanging about' most of these folk now have full time jobs - albeit many may be working the system as you may call it with 16 hour weeks to then access the benefit top ups. And this they are working in care homes, supermarkets etc - the service sector. The labour market is different to 30 /40 years ago when there were thousands of more farmers - take potatoes and look at the number of producers.

Those casuals used to earn good money, more than a full time job for less hours.
Migrants finished that

 

[glasshouse]

It is true though. Over shepherded livestock, too much time and money spent on transport - especially low value material; muck, slurry, silage etc. Wrapping large quantities of silage instead of clamping, we're over capitalised - won't share/hire machinery, recreational tillage, over use of pesticides. We could all be more productive/efficient. Might help if we weren't having to watch our cross compliant backs.

Total nonsense

 

[Rowland]

Who used to do this work ?

When I grew up and we grew potatoes the grader and spud harvester was manned by locals, Housewives, semi employed odd jobbers between work etc there was no shortage and many were glad of the top up to household income

Where are they now ? Signing on probably because it pays bettter ?

The problem in the uk is the benefit system became to lucrative and easy. Work is optional for many and that’s what needs to change

We used to grow a few acers and local kids used to pick them at half term . Cattle trailer on and go and pick them up from the village.
You’d probably do time for loading kids into a cattle trailer and taking them off to a field these days

 

[Hilly]

Eastern Europeans have a high work ethic, they are not genetically different they are just Human so we need to look at the system and say why ? and make changes so Brits develop high work ethic, work is good for the country in many ways not just money , work is good for peoples mental health etc etc etc we need to get our own back to work, this is what Donald Trump has done to his success, a hard working nation is a good thing.