Janet Hughes DEFRA Missing in action?

FC614521-944F-457A-ACB4-A50BDE11DF2C.jpeg

Why should we believe anyone ?
 

willy

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Rutland
I personally think that the Government are treating us like simple peasants and think that by taking away subs we will do what ever they want for very little return.

We run businesses, and I can see very many opportunities for UK AG without having to take government shilling. So I for one will sit well back until they actually offer a business like scheme that will actually add to my bottum line and not just keep it wavering around cost neutral.
 

topground

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North Somerset.
There's no plan for RT to be involved in environmental land management schemes. What we are looking at is whether there's a place for 'earned recognition' - ie if you're in a scheme with environmental aspects eg organic, LEAF, how can we recognise that in our schemes? That would be entirely optional for people, if they wanted to use their accreditation in schemes in that way.

I am meeting Jim Moseley, yes - I meet people from all around the sector as part of my job. Part of the reason I share who I'm meeting and where I'm going each week (I'm @janethughes on twitter -https://twitter.com/JanetHughes - you'll see that I share an update each week about what I'm up to and try to answer all the questions I'm asked there) is that I get very useful feedback from others about who I'm seeing and where I'm going, which helps me make sure I get a balanced range of views.
@Janet Hughes Defra Will you please share with us what you are considering or planning RT will be involved with in any aspect of DEFRA policy delivery?


At present RT is supported by the supermarket cartel because it provides them with part of their due diligence defence to proceedings under the Food Safety Act 1990 at the expense of the primary producer. It is also being used by the British Retail Consortium as a tool to manipulate the market in beef and lamb. Whole life assurance is being pushed by the cartel to achieve vertical integration of the supply chain in beef and lamb which is their preferred business model. The cartel does not like competing in the market in an open and transparent manner and as such RT is progressively anticompetitive.
 

Jimdog1

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Devon
I think many are coming to the conclusion that the current scheme on offer will add little to the average farm business. Too restrictive, little financial incentive, another layer of farm admin to add to the compliance burden. I may take my chances in the marketplace.
 

BrianV

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Dartmoor
I do, yes, and we plan to extend SFI to include those farms before 2024.
It would seem to most of us farmers that the over riding problem with what is being proposed is it appears Defra wish to micro manage every single thing about the scheme, this surely is a recipe for disaster before it's even got off the ground.
There has to be a certain amount of trust forthcoming from Defra's side that farmers will do their very best to accommodate Defra's ambition but too much talk of inspections, checks & outcomes will surely result in many farmers thinking it's far more trouble than it's worth!
For example uk-wales-59158098
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I think many are coming to the conclusion that the current scheme on offer will add little to the average farm business. Too restrictive, little financial incentive, another layer of farm admin to add to the compliance burden. I may take my chances in the marketplace.

from my experience so far the "income forgone" calculations are just to far out for uptake to be significant, I can make some of it work for us but nothing like as much as I should be able to

BUT I also appreciate there is a limit to budget

Only solution I can see is to drop the other "landscape recovery" parts of ELMs that will only really benefit the massive and already wealthy landowners / national Trust / church etc and allocate the saving to make the SFI income forgone calculations more realistic

In fact I feel there is a certain inevitability to the above !
 
Last edited:

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
from my experience so far the "income forgone" calculations are just to far out for uptake to be significant, I can make some of it work for us but nothing like as much as I should be able to

BUT I also appreciate there is a limit to budget

Only solution I can see is to drop the other "landscape recovery" parts of ELMs that will only really benefit the massive and already wealthy landowners / national Trust / church etc and allocate the saving to make the SFI income forgone calculations more realistic

In fact I feel there is a certain inevitability to the above !
Agree 100%, and I have suggested this to DEFRA.

Let them utilise SFI as part of a large scheme by all means... However, my suspicion, is that the extensive lobbying by the representatives of the bodies you mention above, will mean that they will be grabbing a fair old slice of a small cake.
 
@Janet Hughes Defra Will you please share with us what you are considering or planning RT will be involved with in any aspect of DEFRA policy delivery?


At present RT is supported by the supermarket cartel because it provides them with part of their due diligence defence to proceedings under the Food Safety Act 1990 at the expense of the primary producer. It is also being used by the British Retail Consortium as a tool to manipulate the market in beef and lamb. Whole life assurance is being pushed by the cartel to achieve vertical integration of the supply chain in beef and lamb which is their preferred business model. The cartel does not like competing in the market in an open and transparent manner and as such RT is progressively anticompetitive.
Yes - as I said, there isn't any plan for RT to be involved in policy delivery that I'm aware of
 

delilah

Member
it would be a disaster of titanic proportions !

To pursue the analogy....
there is a fair bit of talk from Janet about 'adjusting the standards' etc. It's shuffling deckchairs. The whole thing needs taking right back to the drawing board.
- 90% of the ELMS budget to the SFI. Let the estates, quangos and charities squabble over the other 10%.
- Forget the 3 tier thing in the SFI. Clear, simple standards. I have said ad nauseam where the money should go, wont do so again, but wherever it does go it has to be simple enough for the smallest of farm business to find it doable.
 
It would seem to most of us farmers that the over riding problem with what is being proposed is it appears Defra wish to micro manage every single thing about the scheme, this surely is a recipe for disaster before it's even got off the ground.
There has to be a certain amount of trust forthcoming from Defra's side that farmers will do their very best to accommodate Defra's ambition but too much talk of inspections, checks & outcomes will surely result in many farmers thinking it's far more trouble than it's worth!
For example uk-wales-59158098
I agree, we don't want to micro-manage, and we're re-designing the way we manage controls and assurance in schemes on this basis - we've already made some changes within CS and will carry those forward into SFI. We are setting up the scheme to be constructive and supportive for the vast majority of people who we know are overwhelmingly doing their best in good faith.

However, I do recognise it will take some time for us to demonstrate that we've actually made this shift and for you to see the evidence of it yourself. Fair enough for you to reserve judgement until we've done that.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
I agree, we don't want to micro-manage, and we're re-designing the way we manage controls and assurance in schemes on this basis - we've already made some changes within CS and will carry those forward into SFI. We are setting up the scheme to be constructive and supportive for the vast majority of people who we know are overwhelmingly doing their best in good faith.

However, I do recognise it will take some time for us to demonstrate that we've actually made this shift and for you to see the evidence of it yourself. Fair enough for you to reserve judgement until we've done that.
Good to hear, however, I am one of those who will be "holding back" for a year or two, until I see exactly what is on offer @Janet Hughes Defra ;)

To bring me back into "stewardship", which is the term I use for most of what SFI will encompass, requires all that you detail above to occur, and most importantly, adequate renumeration for my time, my work and the use of my land.

The old CS in all it's various guises, had some faults, and many plus points and with care, the negatives could have been ironed out, however, I see that DEFRA wants a new bright and shiny scheme so we are where we are. CS at the end of the most recent scheme for me, was
 

holwellcourtfarm

Member
Livestock Farmer
from my experience so far the "income forgone" calculations are just to far out for uptake to be significant, I can make some of it work for us but nothing like as much as I should be able to

BUT I also appreciate there is a limit to budget

Only solution I can see is to drop the other "landscape recovery" parts of ELMs that will only really benefit the massive and already wealthy landowners / national Trust / church etc and allocate the saving to make the SFI income forgone calculations more realistic

In fact I feel there is a certain inevitability to the above !
Landscape Recovery is in the Environment Act and the 25 year Environment Plan so very unlikely to be downgraded.
 
The biggest issue I have with entering any scheme is that if they are successful in taking productive land out of food production the uk will need to be a net importer of the grains that we have been net exporters for the last 20 years

this will give the uk higher exfarm prices and higher income from production compared To any schemes
my land lords will look for higher rents based on the higher income from crops
 

BrianV

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Dartmoor
The biggest issue I have with entering any scheme is that if they are successful in taking productive land out of food production the uk will need to be a net importer of the grains that we have been net exporters for the last 20 years

this will give the uk higher exfarm prices and higher income from production compared To any schemes
my land lords will look for higher rents based on the higher income from crops
At a time when many countries in the world are facing devastating famines & the world we are told is warming up making famines ever more likely it would seem to me extremely callous & you could say almost criminal for the UK government to be actively trying to reduce our UK farms output!
Tell me where is the food aid for these impoverished countries supposed to come from or are we expecting ever more people of these countries to start turning up on our shores?
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
I agree, we don't want to micro-manage, and we're re-designing the way we manage controls and assurance in schemes on this basis - we've already made some changes within CS and will carry those forward into SFI. We are setting up the scheme to be constructive and supportive for the vast majority of people who we know are overwhelmingly doing their best in good faith.

However, I do recognise it will take some time for us to demonstrate that we've actually made this shift and for you to see the evidence of it yourself. Fair enough for you to reserve judgement until we've done that.
Good to hear, however, I am one of those who will be "holding back" for a year or two, until I see exactly what is on offer @Janet Hughes Defra ;)

To bring me back into "stewardship", which is the term I use to describe most of what SFI will encompass, requires all that you detail above to occur, and also most importantly, adequate renumeration for my time, my work and the use of my land. I have my doubts that there will be enough in the pot for everyone... Tiers 2 and 3 will see to that!

The old CS in all it's various guises, had some faults, and many plus points and with care, the negatives could have been ironed out, however, I realise that the DEFRA Minister wants a new bright and shiny scheme, so we are where we are.

CS at the end of the most recent scheme for me, was becoming uneconomic on anything other than the smallest scrappy bits of the farm. Larger area options had got left behind with funding, but not a surprise after 10 years!! Proper index linked payments in an era of inflation pushing 5-6% at present, will need factoring in too if DEFRA want us in 3-5 year agreements...
 
Last edited:

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
At a time when many countries in the world are facing devastating famines & the world we are told is warming up making famines ever more likely it would seem to me extremely callous & you could say almost criminal for the UK government to be actively trying to reduce our UK farms output!
Tell me where is the food aid for these impoverished countries supposed to come from or are we expecting ever more people of these countries to start turning up on our shores?
Fully agree.

I was asked earlier this year whether I would I be interested in putting a block of land into a tree planting.

The person asking was a little put out when I said that I felt it was immoral to take decent Agricultural land and lock it up with bloody trees. THat land will be needed soon again...to grow food!
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 78 42.9%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 63 34.6%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.5%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 5 2.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,286
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top