Janet Hughes DEFRA Missing in action?

[Clive]

That's his modus operandi. He lulls you into agreeing with him by using lots of statements that you can agree with then distorts the science or selectively quotes biased studies (or just commonplace lies) to make his real point seem reasonable.

He is a very good orator though and does get much right.

100%

dangerous genius !


btw - anyone else seen that he references / quotes form the Farming forum in his new book ? …….. a 2013 post ! must have really spent ages finding a post that suited purpose

he is clearly amongst TFF membership. Some of you may have unknowingly interacted with him right here

 

[delilah]

Some of you may have unknowingly interacted with him right here

Some of us knowingly have; he has read this.

https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/star-trek.308030/

 

[Clive]

I found myself in 100% agreement whilst he talked of the problems and where they were inevitably leading us, his parallels to the financial system rang true and were very depressing / scary !

where he started talking rose tinted rubbish was his “solutions” mostly still no more than theoretical or at best decades from reality but no consideration for community, economy or most importantly PEOPLE and what they want. Given choice between a life of precision fermented protein and the 6th great extinction I will take the extinction option please ! Not just from a diet point of view but because changing our food so fundamentally also fundamentally changes so much about society , community, sociology and what it actually means to be a human being

George is clearly a very intelligent and well spoken man but he misses a VERY important empathetic point ……… humanity is not a robot than simply needs a new power source

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

I found myself in 100% agreement whilst he talked of the problems and where they were inevitably leading us, his parallels to the financial system rang true and were very depressing / scary !

where he started talking rose tinted rubbish was his “solutions” mostly still no more than theoretical or at best decades from reality but no consideration for community, economy or most importantly PEOPLE and what they want. Given choice between a life of precision fermented protein and the 6th great extinction I will take the extinction option please ! Not just from a diet point of view but because changing our food so fundamentally also fundamentally changes so much about society , community, sociology and what it actually means to be a human being

George is clearly a very intelligent and well spoken man but he misses a VERY important empathetic point ……… humanity is not a robot than simply needs a new power source

Farming communities have been literally decimated in some areas. Not saying it's a good thing, but the corporate food system is quite happy to continue operating while farming families give up the ghost. Less wages for them to pay.

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

George Monbiot and Henry Dimbleby both talked about the next big crisis coming from the food sector. You can almost see it happening.

 

[Hindsight]

Farming communities have been literally decimated in some areas. Not saying it's a good thing, but the corporate food system is quite happy to continue operating while farming families give up the ghost. Less wages for them to pay.

Great sentence. Explain what you mean. (I will explain why I ask - for farming communities can we substitute coal mining communities, clothes manufacturing communities - think Skelmersdale, shoe making communities - think Northampton)

 

[Humble Village Farmer]

Great sentence. Explain what you mean. (I will explain why I ask - for farming communities can we substitute coal mining communities, clothes manufacturing communities - think Skelmersdale, shoe making communities - think Northampton)

It was in response to Clive's comments about G Monbiot and his lack of concern for communities. I'm just pointing out that traditional communities are continually being changed and broken down (not that I think it's a good thing). And sadly, farming communities are only a special case to those involved.

Edit: so I agree with you.

 

[Hindsight]

It was in response to Clive's comments about G Monbiot and his lack of concern for communities. I'm just pointing out that traditional communities are continually being changed and broken down (not that I think it's a good thing). And sadly, farming communities are only a special case to those involved.

Edit: so I agree with you.

Yes. it is the way of life. Society changes as technology changes. Just that since 10,000 BC when I suggest homo sapiens moved from being 'just another wild animal' to a species that quite uniquely moulds the wider environment the speed of change has gather paces almost exponentially every century. Luddites after all was a term coined around the early 1800s. Is it sad? As you say, it is if if you wish to preserve something. Anyway must now go to meet a farmer client and his contractor for review of the farm before harvest. I have a route planned that misses out all the errors, mistakes and blackgrass! Best wishes,

 

[Goweresque]

George is clearly a very intelligent and well spoken man but he misses a VERY important empathetic point ……… humanity is not a robot than simply needs a new power source

The Greens are not empathetic at all - they want to reduce the population of the earth to 500m, they've made it quite clear about that. They don't care about the masses at all (like all people who have 'got religion' they all imagine they will be among the 'saved', it will be the awful unwashed sinners who perish in hell fire sorry, suffer a 'climate catastrophe').

 

[delilah]

The Greens are not empathetic at all

Do you feckin mind. That is about as valid as saying 'The farmers are bigoted, xenophobic, myopic hypocrites.'.

Er, OK. As you were.

 

[egbert]

I found myself in 100% agreement whilst he talked of the problems and where they were inevitably leading us, his parallels to the financial system rang true and were very depressing / scary !

where he started talking rose tinted rubbish was his “solutions” mostly still no more than theoretical or at best decades from reality but no consideration for community, economy or most importantly PEOPLE and what they want. Given choice between a life of precision fermented protein and the 6th great extinction I will take the extinction option please ! Not just from a diet point of view but because changing our food so fundamentally also fundamentally changes so much about society , community, sociology and what it actually means to be a human being

George is clearly a very intelligent and well spoken man but he misses a VERY important empathetic point ……… humanity is not a robot than simply needs a new power source

He talks a good game, but I've found his intelligence severely wanting on occasion.
After his 'road to Damascus' moment in Wales - where he saw fantastic wildflowers growing on the (fenced) verge, but hillsides 'destroyed' by sheep- without the profusion of wildflowers, it never seemed to occur to him that the verge had a very different soil biology to the slopes above.
Lots of verges have had centuries of horsecrap and limestone splashing about, and are never 'cropped'. They could hardly be more 'improved'.

Then, lately in some TV show, I saw him gushing about some half hippy growers in Oxford (?), who'd discovered you can grow green manure.
George, for all his years of studying this business, seemed to have no idea that it's not a new thing.

He's taken a nosey curiosity about something he knows little of, and turned it into an evangelising career.
Recent science about lab grown protein is going to be difficult for him and others to stomach (aha!)

Besides...I've found what he says deeply unpleasant, and have found him a divisive and nasty person.
He hates my entire community, and rest assured, those of us who're aware of him hate him right back.

 

[egbert]

The Greens are not empathetic at all - they want to reduce the population of the earth to 500m, they've made it quite clear about that. They don't care about the masses at all (like all people who have 'got religion' they all imagine they will be among the 'saved', it will be the awful unwashed sinners who perish in hell fire sorry, suffer a 'climate catastrophe').

I've found the Greens ~(if we're talking the party itself) have become wildly left wing. that's their choice, but it isolates them from real politics.

 

[Hindsight]

He talks a good game, but I've found his intelligence severely wanting on occasion.
After his 'road to Damascus' moment in Wales - where he saw fantastic wildflowers growing on the (fenced) verge, but hillsides 'destroyed' by sheep- without the profusion of wildflowers, it never seemed to occur to him that the verge had a very different soil biology to the slopes above.
Lots of verges have had centuries of horsecrap and limestone splashing about, and are never 'cropped'. They could hardly be more 'improved'.

Then, lately in some TV show, I saw him gushing about some half hippy growers in Oxford (?), who'd discovered you can grow green manure.
George, for all his years of studying this business, seemed to have no idea that it's not a new thing.

He's taken a nosey curiosity about something he knows little of, and turned it into an evangelising career.
Recent science about lab grown protein is going to be difficult for him and others to stomach (aha!)

Besides...I've found what he says deeply unpleasant, and have found him a divisive and nasty person.
He hates my entire community, and rest assured, those of us who're aware of him hate him right back.

I was at Groundswell and listened to Monbiot speak. 'Tolly' Ian Tolehurst was focus of his attention, with his sandy plot and green manures. Fascinating I thought. In 1996, when organics suddenly became in the vogue, driven primarily as Waitrose and Safeway decided there was a high margin product suited to their socio economic customer base, I worked as technical manager for a LIncs Co-op that supplied both supermarkets. I had to endure the gushings of Waitrose Bracknell staff as they demanded organic produce, now. And lo I had to engage with the Soil Association and that man Ian Tolehurst was thrust centre stage. And here he is again, thrust centre stage as a beacon of change. Funny old world, as they say.

 

[Huno]

Groundswell 22 was fantastic as always but next year i hear rumours of a new farmers festival in June called Ploughswell.. It involves eating only meat from any source.. music camping meeting of minds etc and a whole load of salesmen showing off their wears.. most of which we don't need.. I am told Cereals are desperate to re brand due to lack of interest.. can @martian's team deliver this event alongside their awesome party this year on industrial farmland with a view?

 

[delilah]

https://www.fginsight.com/news/gove...JLjcooINk98sOt5ZTgFHT7ENT-yq2_4hPVsMOD6F7QVkw

Well, if they are 'not quite ready', then he needs to ask Janet to hit the pause button. You don't launch a once-in-a-generation change on an industry without being confident that what you are doing is fit for purpose.

 

[J 1177]

It really is a shambles

 

[DaveGrohl]

"I wanted to start by admitting my great fear with this journey that we’re on around our future policy. My own officials will be very aware of this. We might have something that’s conceptually very good, that works, is the right thing to do, but then something will go wrong on delivery. And there’s a reason for that. That is because the ecosystem and our environment doesn’t always play to the rules that we set for it administratively, from the centre. It’s complex.

Are recalcitrant Farmers considered to be an ecosystem or environmental problem....??

Remove the word "always" and it reads much much better.

Insert the word "ever" and we might be getting somewhere …

 

[DaveGrohl]

I found myself in 100% agreement whilst he talked of the problems and where they were inevitably leading us, his parallels to the financial system rang true and were very depressing / scary !

where he started talking rose tinted rubbish was his “solutions” mostly still no more than theoretical or at best decades from reality but no consideration for community, economy or most importantly PEOPLE and what they want. Given choice between a life of precision fermented protein and the 6th great extinction I will take the extinction option please ! Not just from a diet point of view but because changing our food so fundamentally also fundamentally changes so much about society , community, sociology and what it actually means to be a human being

George is clearly a very intelligent and well spoken man but he misses a VERY important empathetic point ……… humanity is not a robot than simply needs a new power source

Very easy to spot problems. Very easy to think up solutions. Not so easy to come up with solutions that are sound and have a chance of working.

George hasn’t got to the third sentence yet. Not that he ever will.

The world isn’t short of intelligent persuasive people. That’s the problem. What we’re short of is people like that who also happen to be right.

 

[egbert]

Remove the word "always" and it reads much much better.

Insert the word "ever" and we might be getting somewhere …

I reckon I've got a better fix that that Dave.....
That is because the ecosystem and our environment plays to rules that aren't really understandable from an urban centre.

 

[DaveGrohl]

I reckon I've got a better fix that that Dave.....
That is because the ecosystem and our environment plays to rules that aren't really understandable from an urban centre.

Lol. And maybe from a University too?