Jaw Abscesses on ewes

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

Strip grazing ewes on fodder beet. Found one dead on Monday morning, hadn't been seen to be ill, she had no visible abscess but an amount of blood coming from her mouth. Another one very ill Tuesday afternoon, again no visible abscesses but blood coming from her mouth, treated her with everything we thought my do some good, but she was dead that evening. At the same time, we treated another for an abscess on the jaw. She is now back feeding but could go either way.

This morning found another one with a jaw abscess, treated her with AB , drained and cleaned it but this evening she is dead.

My theory is that although there is plenty of Fodder beet above ground, they are nawing at buried roots and getting earth and chewed up FB impacted around their back teeth.

Would appreciate anyone's experience of anything similar ,or thoughts members might have.
Thanks.

 

[yellowbelly]

How long since their last Clostridial booster vaccination?

Could the abscesses be a way in for soil borne clostridials (eg Blackleg)?

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

The annual Heptevac booster is due in a few weeks.

 

[yellowbelly]

The annual Heptevac booster is due in a few weeks.

So they're probably at their lowest cover?

Just putting it out there as a suggestion, no experience of it happening.
Have you PMed one?

 

[spin cycle]

So they're probably at their lowest cover?

Just putting it out there as a suggestion, no experience of it happening.
Have you PMed one?

isn't the booster really just to provoke immunity in milk for new born lambs

stick one live one in van and off to vet?

pm i'd go for...but can be inconclusive

don't really go with your fb theory

any more deaths get them off the beet and see if improves

get beet harvester in?

cla?....unlikely though

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

Agree lowest cover.
Will go down the pm root if necessary, trouble is , vla cetre 2 half hour round trip plus a bill afterwards.

 

[spin cycle]

Agree lowest cover.
Will go down the pm root if necessary, trouble is , vla cetre 2 half hour round trip plus a bill afterwards.

westpoint at east walton will do pm surely

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

My vets (Isle veterinary group) have always got me to take pm's to Bury st Edmunds VLA. I think it's because they can do much more extensive tests, cultures etc , and I may be wrong , but I believe the actual cost is subsidised for animal health surveillance purposes.

 

[yellowbelly]

My vets (Isle veterinary group) have always got me to take pm's to Bury st Edmunds VLA. I think it's because they can do much more extensive tests, cultures etc , and I may be wrong , but I believe the actual cost is subsidised for animal health surveillance purposes.

First dead one - just one of those things, sh!t happens with sheep.

Second dead one (in the same circumstances), I get the knife out (or get the kennelman to do it when I drop it off) and have a 'poke about' and look for anything unusual. It costs nowt and some things (blackleg, pasturella, pulpy kidney in lambs, etc) are easy to see - all best done while it's fresh.

What are you at now? 3 or 4?
Next one must be worth a trip or at least your local vet. I know what you're saying, by the time a vet centre has 'got round to doing it', all you get is a fudgin' great bill and an 'inconclusive' result.

Hope you can get it sorted soon.

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

Yes on 3 now. Will arrange pm for any new cases. Not really sure if I would know what I was looking for if I opened them up myself. Something I should probably learn.

 

[yellowbelly]

Not really sure if I would know what I was looking for if I opened them up myself.

It's not rocket science - let's face it, the difference between a good vet and a bad one, is that the good one is a better guesser than the bad.

I've always been one for looking over the kennelman's/vet's shoulder - it's surprising how obvious some things are once you've seen them.

 

[andybk]

Clostridial / pasturella i would bet , been a bad year for it with mild temps , we have had sporadic losses in past in replacement ewe lambs that have been on grass keep in winter got out onto chitting wheat (rich high protein) , now always booster vax late autumn which sorted it since . abscess is prob connected soil borne bacteria .

 

[idgni]

When were they last dosed? If recently was there Anybody new on the dosing gun?

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

When were they last dosed? If recently was there Anybody new on the dosing gun?

That is a very good point. They where dosed on the 21/12/19 by someone relatively new , who I thought was getting on very well and very quickly. 19 days would be about the right time for wounds to fester, also combined with eating FB from the soil.
If this is the case, it's my fault entirely for not over seeing the job properly although he was definitely not rough with them, but probably didn't lay the drencher over the back of the tongue and could have gone to the side/ cheek area hence the abscesses ?

 

[idgni]

That is a very good point. They where dosed on the 21/12/19 by someone relatively new , who I thought was getting on very well and very quickly. 19 days would be about the right time for wounds to fester, also combined with eating FB from the soil.
If this is the case, it's my fault entirely for not over seeing the job properly although he was definitely not rough with them, but probably didn't lay the drencher over the back of the tongue and could have gone to the side/ cheek area hence the abscesses ?

Been there and got that T-shirt earlier this year, Lost 4 lambs and managed to save another three. I'll be doing all the drenching from now on.
Can pretty much bet thats your problem as mine were 2-3 weeks after that abscess really showed up.

 

[ajcc]

Knock the beet over “before!” you put the sheep on the break.
How close to lambing? Beet in last month is dangerous due to lack of room...(they will still try and pack it in. Ime and it kills...easy to see in diy pm.)
Could be clostridial though any root grazing is extra problematic this winter. Mud and wasteage /under utilisation . Plodging...now there’s a good word to describe this mornings activity!

 

[Norfolk Hill Farmer]

Knock the beet over “before!” you put the sheep on the break.
How close to lambing? Beet in last month is dangerous due to lack of room...(they will still try and pack it in. Ime and it kills...easy to see in diy pm.)
Could be clostridial though any root grazing is extra problematic this winter. Mud and wasteage /under utilisation . Plodging...now there’s a good word to describe this mornings activity!

11 weeks from lambing. Always fed fodder beet , ad lib, spread on to grass land right up to , and a little after lambing ,with no real problem, except a few prolapses , but who doesn't have them on any type of feed ?
Fed a field of FB in situ couple of years ago with no issues, and this gang of ewes have been grazing in situ since the end of November with no problems until this week.
It does look very much like @idgni scenario above.

 

[neilo]

Knock the beet over “before!” you put the sheep on the break.
How close to lambing? Beet in last month is dangerous due to lack of room...(they will still try and pack it in. Ime and it kills...easy to see in diy pm.)
Could be clostridial though any root grazing is extra problematic this winter. Mud and wasteage /under utilisation . Plodging...now there’s a good word to describe this mornings activity!

You can only ‘knock over’ the very low DM beet varieties like Feldherr & Brigadier (which are actually nearer to Mangels). High yielding/higher DM varieties sit further in the ground and certainly don’t get ‘knocked over’ whatever you do ime. You could perhaps run through with a pig tail to scrat them up, but you’d likely waste a lot of top doing that before grazing I’d have thought.

 

[neilo]

11 weeks from lambing. Always fed fodder beet , ad lib, spread on to grass land right up to , and a little after lambing ,with no real problem, except a few prolapses , but who doesn't have them on any type of feed ?
Fed a field of FB in situ couple of years ago with no issues, and this gang of ewes have been grazing in situ since the end of November with no problems until this week.
It does look very much like @idgni scenario above.

I’ve not posted on this earlier, as I’ve (thankfully) never seen this problem, so didn’t feel I had anything to add. All my in-lamb ewes are happily grazing beet in-situ without issue, as they did last year, and bunches have for several years previously.
I suspect the problem is caused by something other than the grazing of beet, but I have no idea what.

 

[spin cycle]

i've been thinking 3 sets of opel wheels on frame axle would be a good tool for in situ feeding.....let em graze so far then run thru lifting 3 rows a time