JCB 538-60

[ACEngineering]

The boom on our 538-60 moves from side to side when we operate the crowd - mechanic has said it’s not right but the dealer is doing nothing about it. Have you spoken to JCB about it?

if the self leveling ram is offset to the middle of the boom then it always will to some degree, how bad it is will depend on how much wear and free play there is on the main boom pivot pin and how tightly shimmed the end float on the main pin is.

 

[Sparkplug]

The boom on our 538-60 moves from side to side when we operate the crowd - mechanic has said it’s not right but the dealer is doing nothing about it. Have you spoken to JCB about it?

All TH Booms move side to side when you Deadend the crowd ram (Fork Carriage Back) when Main Boom Pin/Bushes Worn - but you would not expect it on a new machine - either the main boom pivot pin bushes are the wrong ones or machined wrong and /or the packing shims either side are missing but the Pin Should Be Tight On The Bushes when new IE no sideways movement, When MLR Pin Bushes are worn that will push boom to the side. MLR circuit is linked in to the Compensating ram circuit .
Whenever I go to inspect any TH, that is the first test I do - sit on seat, lower boom to level, look over right shoulder, deadend back the carriage and rock back and too from deadend position watching main boom twitch at pivot pin, and same for compensating rams (Manitou) then lift boom up and do the same again watching bottom anchor point of MLR - I have seen 2 to3 inch movement in MLR bottom Rod End as the ML Pin is about to break out of the ram end with serious results.

 

[DCM]

The boom on our 538-60 moves from side to side when we operate the crowd - mechanic has said it’s not right but the dealer is doing nothing about it. Have you spoken to JCB about it?

Yes, it was the first thing we complained about as it was really noticeable. They took it away and discovered two things. One was that the inner of the two small rams had the wrong size pin in the end of the ram. The second was that, of those two small rams - on tier 4 machines- they use to both operate the self level. On tier 5, one operates self level and the other is a booster/assistor lift ram.

JCB after fitting the new ram/pin, resulting in the boom still twitching, still say it is within tolerance, which is laughable considering some of the previous comments. The dealer has said it only happens on 6m models as the 7m models rams are mounted differently. But I am not happy. That twitching will wear than main pin in no time! I am to speak to the area rep this week.

 

[DCM]

All TH Booms move side to side when you Deadend the crowd ram (Fork Carriage Back) when Main Boom Pin/Bushes Worn - but you would not expect it on a new machine - either the main boom pivot pin bushes are the wrong ones or machined wrong and /or the packing shims either side are missing but the Pin Should Be Tight On The Bushes when new IE no sideways movement, When MLR Pin Bushes are worn that will push boom to the side. MLR circuit is linked in to the Compensating ram circuit .
Whenever I go to inspect any TH, that is the first test I do - sit on seat, lower boom to level, look over right shoulder, deadend back the carriage and rock back and too from deadend position watching main boom twitch at pivot pin, and same for compensating rams (Manitou) then lift boom up and do the same again watching bottom anchor point of MLR - I have seen 2 to3 inch movement in MLR bottom Rod End as the ML Pin is about to break out of the ram end with serious results.

The crowd doesn't need to be deadendedfor this twitching to happen, it can be at any stage in the crowd.

 

[Sparkplug]

The crowd doesn't need to be deadendedfor this twitching to happen, it can be at any stage in the crowd.

Must be a lot of wear somewhere - the process I describe above when Deadending is to show all wear on MLR Pin, Compensating Rams, And Main Boom Pivot Pin on older machines, but as said above - wrong components fitted does not surprise me at JCB production line.

 

[DCM]

Hope that link works. The video doesn't show the twitch that well, but you can see it.

 

[Sparkplug]

See what you mean - far too much wear there - unless some problem in compensating ram circuit relief valve that is causing boom twitch to be exaggerated - how old did you say the machine was?

 

[DCM]

See what you mean - far too much wear there - unless some problem in compensating ram circuit relief valve that is causing boom twitch to be exaggerated - how old did you say the machine was?

That is my thought regarding the relief valve! It was delivered 3rd week in September, but only has 20hrs on the clock as it has been at the dealers longer than I have supposedly had it.

 

[Wellytrack]

Hope that link works. The video doesn't show the twitch that well, but you can see it.

For a new machine that’s bloody awful

 

[KB6930]

This appeared yesterday.

Must be lucky as it seems square enough and there's no spacer plates in the axle

I'm not keen on the cab they've done the same as others and made a bigger cab but with no more space so gained very little. But we'll just have to get used to it now but I'll still be using my TM310s aw much as possible!!

 

[DCM]

This appeared yesterday.

Must be lucky as it seems square enough and there's no spacer plates in the axle

I'm not keen on the cab they've done the same as others and made a bigger cab but with no more space so gained very little. But we'll just have to get used to it now but I'll still be using my TM310s aw much as possible!!

Health to drive! We have an older machine on loan while our original machine is being investigated. The vision from the new can is a major bonus.

Random question - but if you move the joystick left and right, does the boom twitch left and right?

 

[KB6930]

Health to drive! We have an older machine on loan while our original machine is being investigated. The vision from the new can is a major bonus.

Random question - but if you move the joystick left and right, does the boom twitch left and right?

I'd say vision is a lot worse with this than the 536.60 especially to the front we're on the muck this morning and need to work with the boom out to see the bottom of the grab.

It does but I wouldn't have seen it if you hadn't asked and I tried it

Just tried it again I can barely notice it with an empty bucket on but with nowt on you can see it

 

[Lawless]

Health to drive! We have an older machine on loan while our original machine is being investigated. The vision from the new can is a major bonus.

Random question - but if you move the joystick left and right, does the boom twitch left and right?

Can you please update us if they fix the ‘twitch’.

 

[DCM]

Can you please update us if they fix the ‘twitch’.

I will indeed. The machine is currently sitting in the dealers waiting on a new boom. Once it has arrived and fitted they are to look at the issue.

The reason for the spacer plate was because the bottom of the outer boom was welded in incorrectly. A man on a galloping horse would of seen the mistake, but yet it was patched up and sent out.

 

[DCM]

I'd say vision is a lot worse with this than the 536.60 especially to the front we're on the muck this morning and need to work with the boom out to see the bottom of the grab.

It does but I wouldn't have seen it if you hadn't asked and I tried it

Just tried it again I can barely notice it with an empty bucket on but with nowt on you can see it

I have done more work with the 536 60 on loan than the 538 60 so haven't got much to compare it too apart from looking up whilst loading lorries. The hydraulics, I find, are definitely better on the newer machine.

 

[KB6930]

I have done more work with the 536 60 on loan than the 538 60 so haven't got much to compare it too apart from looking up whilst loading lorries. The hydraulics, I find, are definitely better on the newer machine.

Biggest advantage is hydraulics the old 1 a 67 plate if you press the boom down onto something ig wouldn't crowd the bucket back it would lift the main boom but slow so when loading muck if you were squashing it onto a trailer it was crap but this new 1 just works as normal.

The joystick is positioned wrong for me and the boss and isn't adjustable but we'll get used to it I suppose

 

[ACEngineering]

See what you mean - far too much wear there - unless some problem in compensating ram circuit relief valve that is causing boom twitch to be exaggerated - how old did you say the machine was?

The check valve in the tilt ram will require a bit of pressure to open it thats why you can get the self level ram to jump around and put some pressure on the boom with out fully dead ending the tilt ram. when the boom pivot to chassis is central and the self leveling ram is also centre of the boom you dont get this sideways thrust at all, thats why all the jcb like 530-70 up to 541-70 etc dont have this problem at all.

Some machines for example manitou MLA's have the circuit relief valves fitted to the self level ram and that is another way of fixing this sideways thrust, but doing your normal check for main pin wear does not work the same on an MLA due to the valves actually on the self level ram.

The OP video is no surprise IMO, it could be a lot better than it is as its a new machine but the design of it will always want to do that to some degree and will get worse with age the more wear you get.

All the matbros, john deeres, schaffers, and some manitous do the same, anything with an offset boom/leveling ram basically. (twin self leveling rams even the force out so no issue there)
Dieci have there self leveling built in the main lift ram so no problem like this on them either.

JCB and the dealer may improve the ops problem with shims or new pins/bushes or line boring it tighter but that does not fix the way its designed.

 

[bluebell]

JCB, not a good advert for others thinking of maybe buying ? a new telehandler, ive been thinking of this for a few years, making the jump from a tractor loader to a telehandler, but reading this and the price scares me?

 

[ollie989898]

Bit of an update. The handler is to be collected this week, but in the mean time I have been using it. It filled it's first lorry with barley, no problems at all. Good hydraulics, comfortable and good vision.

Yesterday I decided to load some wheat with it, only to discover with the 3rd bucket full that the wheat flowed over the back of the bucket onto the cab when I raised it to fill the trailer! I have done nothing different to what I had been doing before - but am I doing something seriously wrong, or is this another fault? View attachment 993824

Some JCB handlers do this and some do not. I'm pleased to see that even brand new ones still have the same habit.

Just buy a Kramer. Having a wedge under one corner of the chassis is not a solution to having something else out of whack, imagine the grief that it is going to give the main boom pivot or the boom sections over time.

JCB are trading on their name these days, pumping out machines at hell of a rate and good luck to anyone who has them. For a time the handlers were rock steady but that is long gone now. Just be thankful you don't run a Fastrac.

 

[ollie989898]

Yes, it was the first thing we complained about as it was really noticeable. They took it away and discovered two things. One was that the inner of the two small rams had the wrong size pin in the end of the ram. The second was that, of those two small rams - on tier 4 machines- they use to both operate the self level. On tier 5, one operates self level and the other is a booster/assistor lift ram.

JCB after fitting the new ram/pin, resulting in the boom still twitching, still say it is within tolerance, which is laughable considering some of the previous comments. The dealer has said it only happens on 6m models as the 7m models rams are mounted differently. But I am not happy. That twitching will wear than main pin in no time! I am to speak to the area rep this week.

Does any of this fill you with confidence about the thing's long term reliablity.