John deere 3350 difficult to change gear

[2140leo]

Hello…. As usual i am after a little bit of help. We bought a 3350 a while ago and have been doing some work on it, however it is very difficult to change between either one, two and reverse when the brakes are not used. It is fine if you take the 1-4 lever out and also is ok if you stop with the brakes and hold them on….. it also seems easier to change in hi and more difficult in low. This tractor has had a loader on before i bought it. It has had a new flywheel and LUK clutch and a new master cylinder but this has not cured it. Could it be the hi lo seals or backlash in the gears? Its just like there is a tiny bit of drag in there somewhere…… bearing in mine the tractor does pull very well.

would appreciate anyones thoughts/ ideas

thankyou (-:

 

[Extractorfan]

It will have warped clutch plates in the hi-lo. If you drive it on a small incline and depress clutch, you may find it won’t roll back until you shift to hi.

 

[2140leo]

It will have warped clutch plates in the hi-lo. If you drive it on a small incline and depress clutch, you may find it won’t roll back until you shift to hi.

it does roll once you have moved either of the gear sticks to neutral once you do this it will roll an inch or two either way. But i will try your idea of putting it on an incline and see what happens. Thanks for your comment (-:

 

[Tractortech]

Hello…. As usual i am after a little bit of help. We bought a 3350 a while ago and have been doing some work on it, however it is very difficult to change between either one, two and reverse when the brakes are not used. It is fine if you take the 1-4 lever out and also is ok if you stop with the brakes and hold them on….. it also seems easier to change in hi and more difficult in low. This tractor has had a loader on before i bought it. It has had a new flywheel and LUK clutch and a new master cylinder but this has not cured it. Could it be the hi lo seals or backlash in the gears? Its just like there is a tiny bit of drag in there somewhere…… bearing in mine the tractor does pull very well.

would appreciate anyones thoughts/ ideas

thankyou (-:

Now Then..
You say it's difficult to change the range lever. However, you don't describe the difficulty.
Are you trying to change range while it's moving??
With the clutch fully depressed and a 1,2,3,4 gear selected, do the range gears grind??
Does the clutch pedal feel correct, no free play, not spongey at all??
If you select low range & 1st gear with the engine running. On the flat with the clutch fully down, does the tractor creep forwards ??

 

[2140leo]

Now Then..
You say it's difficult to change the range lever. However, you don't describe the difficulty.
Are you trying to change range while it's moving??
With the clutch fully depressed and a 1,2,3,4 gear selected, do the range gears grind??
Does the clutch pedal feel correct, no free play, not spongey at all??
If you select low range & 1st gear with the engine running. On the flat with the clutch fully down, does the tractor creep forwards ??

Hello. Range lever is fine to get in and change between. 1,2 and reverse lever is fine to put in gear but very difficult to pull out of 1,2 or reverse without the range lever being in neutral. Just had a new clutch and flywheel as we thought clutch could be the problem so we then put new master cylinder in as the clutch didnt cure it. Tractor does not creep at all but will roll a little when pulled out of gear on the 1,2 reverse lever.
clutch pedal is lovely since shes had the new clutch
and there is no grinding at all between any of the ranges or gears

 

[Tractortech]

The range lever is the lever with 'high/low/reverse' (3 ranges) the lever with the 4 gears would be the gear or speed change lever.
The cylinder in the cab is the 'master' cylinder, the one inside the clutch housing is the 'slave'.
The only thing that can cause the transmission to rotate is the clutch. If it doesn't clear properly when the pedal is pressed there will be load on the gears and you will find changing ranges difficult while the speed lever is in gear.
Many years ago, when all the other tractors were going 'shuttle' shift, JD said they already had it. Low range and reverse range have always been in a straight line. However, there's no synchro, so the tractor has to be stationery. It should therefore be smooth and crunch free with the speed lever in 1,2,3, or 4. Unfortunately '4 R' was fast enough as a reverse speed, '4 L' was too slow for most jobs. So, one finds one's self changing 2 levers between '4 R' & '2 H'..
Anyway, back to your problem,,,,, the Hi-Lo shouldn't load the transmission as when the clutch pedal is fully down, there's no input into the gearbox. Does the Hi-Lo work correctly?? Shifts should be quite snappy and instant, not feeling delayed or modulated..
Did your new clutch plate have 'cross hatching' on the flywheel side friction surface?? Does temperature have any effect, good or bad?? They used to reckon, the plate could vacuum itself to the flywheel, hence the cross hatching..

 

[Fendtbro]

Was the flywheel mounted by someone who knew what they were doing? ie dead clean on the mating surfaces.. Sounds like an odd problem, so the non synchro (f-r) gears engage easily with the main stick in 1-4, but are hard to get out?

 

[2140leo]

The range lever is the lever with 'high/low/reverse' (3 ranges) the lever with the 4 gears would be the gear or speed change lever.
The cylinder in the cab is the 'master' cylinder, the one inside the clutch housing is the 'slave'.
The only thing that can cause the transmission to rotate is the clutch. If it doesn't clear properly when the pedal is pressed there will be load on the gears and you will find changing ranges difficult while the speed lever is in gear.
Many years ago, when all the other tractors were going 'shuttle' shift, JD said they already had it. Low range and reverse range have always been in a straight line. However, there's no synchro, so the tractor has to be stationery. It should therefore be smooth and crunch free with the speed lever in 1,2,3, or 4. Unfortunately '4 R' was fast enough as a reverse speed, '4 L' was too slow for most jobs. So, one finds one's self changing 2 levers between '4 R' & '2 H'..
Anyway, back to your problem,,,,, the Hi-Lo shouldn't load the transmission as when the clutch pedal is fully down, there's no input into the gearbox. Does the Hi-Lo work correctly?? Shifts should be quite snappy and instant, not feeling delayed or modulated..
Did your new clutch plate have 'cross hatching' on the flywheel side friction surface?? Does temperature have any effect, good or bad?? They used to reckon, the plate could vacuum itself to the flywheel, hence the cross hatching..

I am probs refering to them the wrong way round then. Everything has been changed now on the clutch side including flywheel and slave and master cylinder. Shifts between hi and low when cold can be a bit stready but when warm it is snappy and quick However i do really use it when cold. It stays in hi on tickover and returns when stopped to low. It is the opposite way to my 3650 which returns to hi when stopped and i have rebuilt the back end of the 3650 due to loosing 3rd range. I believe the clutch did have cross hatching but it has been about 3 weeks since it was fitted. Seems strange to me how the new clutch could present the same problem as the old one? Old clutch was totally knackered though. It had began to slip and the springs had started to break up.

 

[2140leo]

Was the flywheel mounted by someone who knew what they were doing? ie dead clean on the mating surfaces.. Sounds like an odd problem, so the non synchro (f-r) gears engage easily with the main stick in 1-4, but are hard to get out?

Yes i did it myself with the help of a mate whos an agricultural engineer. Yes they engage fine but are really hard to pull out and then will go in fine after. Tractor will roll a tiny amount once you have managed to get it out. Its not exactly over difficult but it does feel like sometimes you really have to yank the leaver. I cant see how a totally new clutch system can present the same problem as the old one?

 

[Fendtbro]

Very odd it's going in easy, was it split on a splitting trolley?

 

[Extractorfan]

Yes i did it myself with the help of a mate whos an agricultural engineer. Yes they engage fine but are really hard to pull out and then will go in fine after. Tractor will roll a tiny amount once you have managed to get it out. Its not exactly over difficult but it does feel like sometimes you really have to yank the leaver. I cant see how a totally new clutch system can present the same problem as the old one?

Maybe it ain’t the clutch then. Your original post said it was easier to shift gears in hi. How does the clutch know when you’re in hi or lo.
On a 30k tractor, the low clutch is spring driven and hydraulically released. When the plates warp, it’s effectively trying to drive in hi and lo causing wind up in the transmission. That’s why, if you stop on a slight incline, clutch down and both levers in gear it won’t roll. If you can pull the range lever out and it rolls then it proves Hilo is binding. It’s a bit like the old multi power in that you sometimes had to shift to high to get it out of gear.
Worked for a dealer that sold hundreds of the things in the 80,s, all from one depot.
You could pull the trans filter and suction screen out and check for clutch lining. Keep going and it will be full of iron filings.

 

[2140leo]

Very odd it's going in easy, was it split on a splitting trolley?

Yes we have got our own with a jack on a frame with 4 wheels on it.

 

[2140leo]

Maybe it ain’t the clutch then. Your original post said it was easier to shift gears in hi. How does the clutch know when you’re in hi or lo.
On a 30k tractor, the low clutch is spring driven and hydraulically released. When the plates warp, it’s effectively trying to drive in hi and lo causing wind up in the transmission. That’s why, if you stop on a slight incline, clutch down and both levers in gear it won’t roll. If you can pull the range lever out and it rolls then it proves Hilo is binding. It’s a bit like the old multi power in that you sometimes had to shift to high to get it out of gear.
Worked for a dealer that sold hundreds of the things in the 80,s, all from one depot.
You could pull the trans filter and suction screen out and check for clutch lining. Keep going and it will be full of iron filings.

I dont think its the clutch now. The old one was totally knackered and the plates and springs were all broken.
had an oil change about a month ago and its all clean but i think its to do with the hi low as well. Seems strange as its slow to go in hi when its cold but when its warm it seems to work perfectly. I guess i will have to have the cab off and have a look in there when i can afford the parts for it!

 

[Extractorfan]

when you say it feels slow to go into hi, do you mean the lever shifts ok but doesn’t engage hi or the lever won’t stay in hi? When you shift the Hilo, it moves a spool that fires another spool if that makes sense. So the secondary spool shifts to make sure it’s either sending the oil to the hi or lo pack and no chance of hesitation to cause slippage. It has ball detents so it can only be in the right position. These components are in the shifter cover which you can remove after taking the floor out. Might be worth checking oil gallery gaskets in shifter cover. Have known them blow internally.

 

[2140leo]

when you say it feels slow to go into hi, do you mean the lever shifts ok but doesn’t engage hi or the lever won’t stay in hi? When you shift the Hilo, it moves a spool that fires another spool if that makes sense. So the secondary spool shifts to make sure it’s either sending the oil to the hi or lo pack and no chance of hesitation to cause slippage. It has ball detents so it can only be in the right position. These components are in the shifter cover which you can remove after taking the floor out. Might be worth checking oil gallery gaskets in shifter cover. Have known them blow internally.

thanks for your reply.
when cold its slow for the hi to engage but when warm is completely normal and its quick to come out of hi into low.
the lever does go in fine and it does stay in.
when hot it works fine its snappy and quick either in or out.
it slips back from hi to low once engine is stopped too which is what it should do. though my 3650 is the opposite was she always goes back into hi when stopped. must be the way they are pressured?

 

[marco]

thanks for your reply.
when cold its slow for the hi to engage but when warm is completely normal and its quick to come out of hi into low.
the lever does go in fine and it does stay in.
when hot it works fine its snappy and quick either in or out.
it slips back from hi to low once engine is stopped too which is what it should do. though my 3650 is the opposite was she always goes back into hi when stopped. must be the way they are pressured?

One 30k and the other 40k?

 

[2140leo]

One 30k and the other 40k?

No they are both 30k its just the way they are pressured inside. 3650 is a heavier back end