John Deere direct drive gearbox?

[marco]

The CNH one hasn’t been around long enough yet to be making that kind of assumption...

I was sure some on here had problems with the new Holland gearbox

 

[Mur Huwcun]

If you can work out in your head how a Dual clutch gearbox mechanically operates there’s no way that they can be reliable over high hours or milages. You won’t find many VWs or Audis with lunar milages with the DSG box.

when you’re setting off in first gear then clutch one is engaging 1st gear when 2nd clutch has already engaged 2nd gear ready to go. 1st clutch then drops 1st gear and selects third but how many times does the box select the next gear up but the terrain or hill dictates that it needs to downshift. At this moment the clutch has to drop the higher gear, hydraulically shift a synchroniser into a lower gear and re fill the clutch ready to go. How many times can to box withstand these mechanical shifts that are not needed.

Personally I can‘t see them being ultra reliable. Volvo have an I shift version in trucks now which will be interesting to see how it pans out

 

[Chae1]

The CNH one hasn’t been around long enough yet to be making that kind of assumption...

They don't really seem to be pushing it and moving it onto larger models. Haven't heard of any with problems either though.

 

[J 1177]

The CNH one hasn’t been around long enough yet to be making that kind of assumption...

Iv got on so good so far but time will tell
Its so smooth

 

[Northeastfarmer]

How is it possible that in 2021 they can’t of perfected a gearbox...

 

[Cowabunga]

If you can work out in your head how a Dual clutch gearbox mechanically operates there’s no way that they can be reliable over high hours or milages. You won’t find many VWs or Audis with lunar milages with the DSG box.

when you’re setting off in first gear then clutch one is engaging 1st gear when 2nd clutch has already engaged 2nd gear ready to go. 1st clutch then drops 1st gear and selects third but how many times does the box select the next gear up but the terrain or hill dictates that it needs to downshift. At this moment the clutch has to drop the higher gear, hydraulically shift a synchroniser into a lower gear and re fill the clutch ready to go. How many times can to box withstand these mechanical shifts that are not needed.

Personally I can‘t see them being ultra reliable. Volvo have an I shift version in trucks now which will be interesting to see how it pans out

Your logic exactly matches mine.
Like I said, I have one in my new car. Not a VW or Ford. It does work very well indeed but long term? I do have some doubts. I would prefer a planetary automatic with a torque converter but I like the car very much as it is. It shifts lightening fast 98% of the time and that remaining 2% is when it is caught off guard having guessed the next change the wrong way. The wet clutch is also very well modulated and I'm never quite sure when it has fully engaged in first gear from a standstill, it is that smooth.

 

[Cowabunga]

How is it possible that in 2021 they can’t of perfected a gearbox...

They are always innovating and trying to gain usability, versatility, efficiency and refinement, while patenting their best new bits. Unfortunately costs do come into it and they do have to cut those to remain competitive. Maybe they sometimes try and cut one corner too many to keep those costs down?

 

[livestock 1]

If you can work out in your head how a Dual clutch gearbox mechanically operates there’s no way that they can be reliable over high hours or milages. You won’t find many VWs or Audis with lunar milages with the DSG box.

when you’re setting off in first gear then clutch one is engaging 1st gear when 2nd clutch has already engaged 2nd gear ready to go. 1st clutch then drops 1st gear and selects third but how many times does the box select the next gear up but the terrain or hill dictates that it needs to downshift. At this moment the clutch has to drop the higher gear, hydraulically shift a synchroniser into a lower gear and re fill the clutch ready to go. How many times can to box withstand these mechanical shifts that are not needed.

Personally I can‘t see them being ultra reliable. Volvo have an I shift version in trucks now which will be interesting to see how it pans out

Volvo I shift in FH is ultra reliable

 

[livestock 1]

Thanks for all the info I should have said there was a warranty job done on the gearbox at some stage as my local garage sold it new!! There’s high hours on the tractor which wouldn’t bother me if it was power quad most thing that drawing me to it is price

Is it RFS?

 

[Mur Huwcun]

Volvo I shift in FH is ultra reliable

Yes I shift has been around for donkey years but they now have a Dual clutch I shift aswell

 

[livestock 1]

Yes I shift has been around for donkey years but they now have a Dual clutch I shift aswell

Oh i see I didn’t know the difference

 

[Bald Rick]

They have a weak circlip on some of them. A set of gears can drop off a shaft and end up a mincing machine. Jd know about the weakness but aren’t keen after warranty.

We have just had one go on our 6215 which is well out of warranty at 7000 hrs but JD paid 3/5ths of repair bill

 

[Mur Huwcun]

Your logic exactly matches mine.
Like I said, I have one in my new car. Not a VW or Ford. It does work very well indeed but long term? I do have some doubts. I would prefer a planetary automatic with a torque converter but I like the car very much as it is. It shifts lightening fast 98% of the time and that remaining 2% is when it is caught off guard having guessed the next change the wrong way. The wet clutch is also very well modulated and I'm never quite sure when it has fully engaged in first gear from a standstill, it is that smooth.

I’ve recently bought another manual run around car as Audi don’t use or fit the tiptronic conventional torque converter box in cars any more and no car mechanic would rate a DSG box after the 100k mark or I woukd of jumped for one. Now, the Multitronic CVT box.........

 

[livestock 1]

We have just had one go on our 6215 which is well out of warranty at 7000 hrs but JD paid 3/5ths of repair bill

That’s good of them then?

 

[livestock 1]

Do you think the manufacturer’s want this gear to run high hours trouble free?
I don’t

 

[Bald Rick]

That’s good of them then?

Well in theory they could have not contributed at all.

 

[livestock 1]

Well in theory they could have not contributed at all.

They didn’t in the case of the one I know of as far as I was aware last time we talked about it anyway

 

[Bald Rick]

They didn’t in the case of the one I know of as far as I was aware last time we talked about it anyway

TBF we have a good relationship with our dealer. He is a smallish outfit which helps as we deal with the principal to sort problems.

Big isn’t always beautiful

 

[Chae1]

Do you think the manufacturer’s want this gear to run high hours trouble free?
I don’t

The chap I spoke to said they have very little trouble running them to those hours. A lot of pipes burst around 10k hours. Still get over 20k for them with those hours. They'd be doing 2.5k hours plus per year. So only 8 years old.

 

[Jim75]

CNH have their dual clutch gearbox (active 8 or something they've branded it?). I had one of the first production versions it on demo. Very smooth shifts but few actual gearing variations and a needs a creeper 'box for does work, exactly the same as the Deere DD.

There doesn't seem to be any issues with the CNH design in comparison to Deere, however complex they both are. CNH evolved from Ford, which had the well earned reputation of needing "Fixed Or Repaired Daily", yet they have engineered a reliable dual clutch gearbox when it seems Deere have not.

The Deere direct drive, as well as lacking ratios for field work and lacking slow speeds, is also very harsh for PTO work where gear shifts are required, such as mowing. When shifting up there are large and fast engine speed variations down the driveline. It was awful listening and watching my neighbour cutting grass with the demo they had (was it really near 8 years ago!?!) I was waiting for the mower to go bang it was that savage!

I have to say that it is a lovely gearbox for transport work though. Much faster and smoother shifts even than the very good auto quad. It is also a very efficient design with far fewer power losses than the auto power vario.

With much in life, you get what you pay for in my opinion: If you're willing to take the risk, DD it's a lovely machine for road work, but they're "cheap" second hand for a reason.....

Got 2 x maxxum 145 active 8 gearboxes here. One just been split to have some work done. From new they lose drive. Time will tell if it fixes the fault or not but if it does the other one will be going in. Software is the biggest issue throwing codes for this that and the next thing. Turn it off and on and goes so long again