Johnes :-(

[som farmer]

1960's and 70's we seemed to have several a year with johns, especially guernseys, as soon as a cow started to sh!t and go back sold. then80's and 90's never saw any, and now its back. as we both rear and buy replacement cows as soon as one looks a bit wiry coated and shitty, shes off on a one way journey, while she is worth a bit. we do 1/4 30 cow test with nmr, and have a very low readings. pastureisation of milk does not kill johns, but we acidify our calves milk, and as long as you leave it 'cooking' for at least 3 days before use, it is claimed to kill johns. whether true or not, it is a fantastic feed for calves, allowing you to feed larger quantities, without them scouring, for anyone feeding calves, whole milk, it really is worth looking at, we block calve. and treat a lot of colostrum, very cheap way to feed calves. bit off johnes but a good plug!

 

[ploughman1963]

Went through the issue of pasteurisation with my vet the other day and he is saying that whilst pasteurisation won’t be guaranteed to kill MAP, doing it can only help. Main issue there is contaminated muck getting into milk as said above but by selecting milk for replacements from green cows only and by keeping milk clean (we are using a dump line instead of dump buckets) you are reducing risk at every step.

 

[More to life]

The more research that gets done the more the odds seem stacked against us. Material transmission, positive cows that never show positive, super shedders, sheep, any spreading of manure on grass ground and best of all baby calves from positive cows are infectious at birth for a month. The only way forwards is zero tolerance and strick protocols.

 

[ploughman1963]

The more research that gets done the more the odds seem stacked against us. Material transmission, positive cows that never show positive, super shedders, sheep, any spreading of manure on grass ground and best of all baby calves from positive cows are infectious at birth for a month. The only way forwards is zero tolerance and strick protocols.

Strict protocols yes. Zero tolerance depends upon your level of Johnes - can you afford the replacements? Plenty of farms have shown that this disease can be 'managed' by implementing strict protocols and taking steps to reduce the risk of transmission, especially at the high risk points. Why get rid of a J2-J4 cow that could continue to produce beef calves and milk for another couple of lactations at least as long as you minimise the risks.

 

[More to life]

Strict protocols yes. Zero tolerance depends upon your level of Johnes - can you afford the replacements? Plenty of farms have shown that this disease can be 'managed' by implementing strict protocols and taking steps to reduce the risk of transmission, especially at the high risk points. Why get rid of a J2-J4 cow that could continue to produce beef calves and milk for another couple of lactations at least as long as you minimise the risks.

Sorry I meant j5 but keeping large numbers of positive cows just makes the whole farm environment more challenging.

 

[Llmmm]

My advice if you have a serious johnes problem dont cull hard or you will go broke ive seen many high positive give high production milk for many years ive also seen lots of high positive and clinical cows that produced heifer calves that never became positive i believe that if calves are fed one day colostrum and onto milk replacer and reared away from adult stock you will get johnes down to a very low level even in problem herds.

 

[Water Wheel]

The more research that gets done the more the odds seem stacked against us. Material transmission, positive cows that never show positive, super shedders, sheep, any spreading of manure on grass ground and best of all baby calves from positive cows are infectious at birth for a month. The only way forwards is zero tolerance and strick protocols.

"positive cows that never show positive" ??

I haven't caught up with this one.

The only way forwards is zero tolerance and strict protocols. Agree with this.

 

[Llmmm]

The more research that gets done the more the odds seem stacked against us. Material transmission, positive cows that never show positive, super shedders, sheep, any spreading of manure on grass ground and best of all baby calves from positive cows are infectious at birth for a month. The only way forwards is zero tolerance and strick protocols.[/QUOthe risk of sheep infecting cows is almost zero

 

[Llmmm]

"positive cows that never show positive" ??

I haven't caught up with this one.

The only way forwards is zero tolerance and strict protocols. Agree with this.

Ive seen cows leave the herd never haveing had a positive test but the last herd test could have been months before the cow was culled however im sure if they were tested before going for slaughter they would have had a positive test

 

[ploughman1963]

Sorry, not having a go but my approach to some of your points would be:

The more research that gets done the more the odds seem stacked against us. Material transmission highest risk of transmission is at calving when cow is naturally under stress so separate any known J cows away from the non-J cows as soon as possible after drying off., positive cows that never show positive, super shedders, sheep don't bring sheep in on tack - if you have your own flock then perhaps consider if its worth the risk to continue to do so., any spreading of manure on grass ground compost/store your muck to have a 6 month standing time? Apply slurry to silage ground only? Apply with trailing shoe to avoid leaf contamination? and best of all baby calves from positive cows are infectious at birth for a month Treat any calves from a J cow as a beef calve even if its a replacement heifer. Segregate replacements from beef calves. Feed replacements first then don't go back to replacements area after going into the beef area. The only way forwards is zero tolerance and strick protocols.

I think the answer is to look for manageable ways to avoid the risk areas alongside reducing the risks

 

[More to life]

Sorry, not having a go but my approach to some of your points would be: I think the answer is to look for manageable ways to avoid the risk areas alongside reducing the risks

What's the red ink for? my point was it's and uphill struggle have you eliminated Johnes ? I've been testing 10 years and we're making little progress.

 

[More to life]

My advice if you have a serious johnes problem dont cull hard or you will go broke ive seen many high positive give high production milk for many years ive also seen lots of high positive and clinical cows that produced heifer calves that never became positive i believe that if calves are fed one day colostrum and onto milk replacer and reared away from adult stock you will get johnes down to a very low level even in problem herds.

sorry your wrong that's years out of date

 

[Llmmm]

sorry your wrong that's years out of date

sorry your wrong that's years out of date

Well johnes was 30% here 8 years ago its down to 2% now i must be doing something right

 

[More to life]

"positive cows that never show positive" ??

I haven't caught up with this one.

The only way forwards is zero tolerance and strict protocols. Agree with this.

Have you never had a cow show positive at 7,8,9 years old many more pass through the system undetected

 

[More to life]

Well johnes was 30% here 8 years ago its down to 2% now i must be doing something right

I hope you hold it there I've been single figures twice now it fluctuates here it's very depressing.

 

[Llmmm]

I hope you hold it there I've been single figures twice now it fluctuates here it's very depressing.

We are now going to get agressive with culling to try and keep it down and cow with two positives will be culled we have never culled until now until cows started to loose production the johnes cows in herd now are showing positives at two to three years no old cows are showing positive these were infected soom after birth

 

[ploughman1963]

What's the red ink for? my point was it's and uphill struggle have you eliminated Johnes ? I've been testing 10 years and we're making little progress.

Red ink was there to make it easy to see my comment within your text

 

[More to life]

Red ink was there to make it easy to see my comment within your text

To be fair I did wonder if that was the case it just looked aggressive.

 

[multi power]

Cull the 2 cows and all offspring from them that are alive. Simples

That is unlikely to achieve much

 

[multi power]

What's the red ink for? my point was it's and uphill struggle have you eliminated Johnes ? I've been testing 10 years and we're making little progress.

I seem to have eridicated it in 6 years, very little culling involved