Jones baler mk10 Knot tails too short.

[Seth470]

On our Jones baler the knot tails are being cut to short and the knot pulls through. It’s doing on both knotters. Any idea how to fix it ?

 

[Chuckie]

try some different string before adjusting anything

 

[Ffermer Bach]

click the knotters to knot, then pull the strings through and loop them round a bar (like a bale going through), then get someone to spin over the flywheel (by hand), this will allow you to watch what is going on with the knotters, and may give you an idea of what the problem is.

 

[Exfarmer]

If it is both I too would suggest it is the string, but if you have bought sufficient for the season , not easy to change.
I would try playing tension on the string feed only a little at a time. If that does not work put as little more pressure on the bill hook. Always adjust perhaps a quarter turn each time and remember where you started from

 

[Two Tone]

Are you sure that the needles are lifting high enough? The higher they lift, the longer the tails will become.
They are usually adjustable on the needle arm crank. By shortening the crank, you will increase the amount the needle travel upwards. But, make sure that in the rest position, they clear the bottom of the bale.

The instruction manual book should show you some timing and positioning marks to work from.
The bearings on the needle yolk arm can wear, allowing the needle position to change

 

[Simon Chiles]

Are you sure that the needles are lifting high enough? The higher they lift, the longer the tails will become.
They are usually adjustable on the needle arm crank. By shortening the crank, you will increase the amount the needle travel upwards. But, make sure that in the rest position, they clear the bottom of the bale.

The instruction manual book should show you some timing and positioning marks to work from.
The bearings on the needle yolk arm can wear, allowing the needle position to change

It could also be not enough tension on the twine retainers, especially likely if a) you’ve changed string or b) it ties a perfect knot when you turn it over without anything in the chamber but drops the knot when baling.

 

[startinghandle]

Is there good edge on string knives?

 

[bobk]

On our Jones baler the knot tails are being cut to short and the knot pulls through. It’s doing on both knotters. Any idea how to fix it ?

12000 feet string ? it's shite , mine will bale with it but false economy imo

 

[Seth470]

12000 feet string ? it's shite , mine will bale with it but false economy imo

Nope 10000ft string new holland yellow stuff. gonna try some pink stuff that worked

 

[bobk]

Nope 10000ft string new holland yellow stuff. gonna try some pink stuff that worked

8000 was always the direct replacement for sisal , which was the type approval when these balers were made

 

[startinghandle]

Are the eyes in the needles worn big and need filling with weld

 

[startinghandle]

Are the eyes in the needles worn big and need filling with weld

I just realised can't be that

 

[glasshouse]

On our Jones baler the knot tails are being cut to short and the knot pulls through. It’s doing on both knotters. Any idea how to fix it ?

Last yr i had bother with a nh knotter using pink string, other knotter was fine on orange twine
Pink knots wouldnt hold, i firstly blamed the knotter, but then i binned the pink and got more orange , went like a dream after

 

[br jones]

finally ,a thread that asks a very important question ,
how long is a piece of string ?

 

[Tonym]

finally ,a thread that asks a very important question ,
how long is a piece of string ?

8000, 10000, or 12000 take your pick.

 

[Bald n Grumpy]

finally ,a thread that asks a very important question ,
how long is a piece of string ?

Sorry to disappoint you but the threads about how short the string is not how long it is

 

[collywol]

Check twine tension, not enough tension causes this on big balers, maybe worth a go.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

Are you sure that the needles are lifting high enough? The higher they lift, the longer the tails will become.
They are usually adjustable on the needle arm crank. By shortening the crank, you will increase the amount the needle travel upwards. But, make sure that in the rest position, they clear the bottom of the bale.

The instruction manual book should show you some timing and positioning marks to work from.
The bearings on the needle yolk arm can wear, allowing the needle position to change

No that is not the way it works, the needles only put the string into the retainer, nothing else, and if its doing that then leave well alone, your suggestion could well easy bale the needles, there just bits of flimsy tin on a Jones,
The problem is below the retainer between the retainer and the knife, billhook, and stripper arm, NOT above,

Is there good edge on string knives?

This is one of the biggest problems, and the first port of call, it needs to be very sharp, no burrs or dull spots.

need filling with weld

We don't know anyone that can do that,

10000ft string new holland yellow stuff

10,000 feet balls will be fine, however I would keep away from that string,
String like Cotesi etc seems to be more consistent wherever you get it, branded string seems to be the brand screws the maker down on price and quantity suffers, ok in new balers, but any balers with a lot of bales on them, use Cotesi is my advice, and at £18 a pack you cannot go wrong,


Check the string box tensioner for worn groves, as this let's the string slack, even it you tighten the bolt if its bottomed out, although I don't think this is the problem,
Retainer disc timing could be slightly out due to wear, this might seem OK and is both holding and tying ok, however this wear will retard it slightly, and this means it holds the string nearer the knife, in turn this cuts the string sooner, thus shorter ends on string, the slots for the string need to be right, basically as the string sits in them before the disc moves, if retarded as the disc moves the string drops into the slot fully and looks fine but when it parks it leave the string position nearer the knife, thus shorter ends.
Now the bill hook, it may look as though its shut right, and under tension, but over the years with grease and hay seeds etc, it builds up behind the keeper, count the turns on the keeper spring tensioner nut as you remove it, clean out behind it and replace and reset to same turns on nut,
My guess is it is the knife arm, check that the rollers in the cam are free to turn, and no flat spots on them, also check the stripper is just rubbing, only just and nothing more as it will wear if rubbing hard on the bottom of the bills, if a small gap, the modify it with a hammer in situ, also check the roller is free and no flat spots on tucker finger cam,

All in all first off get some Cotesi 10,000 ft hay twine and start from there

 

[norse]

Watch this as new holland knotters are the same ones as Jones fitted. The knot tail length is determined by slight slippage through the twine discs ,if you slacken them slightly or increase twine tension to the knotters it can have the same effect, needle height should not affect tail length as long as it the twine is presented correctly in the knotter you could also try increasing the tension on the bill slightly

 

[Seth470]

No that is not the way it works, the needles only put the string into the retainer, nothing else, and if its doing that then leave well alone, your suggestion could well easy bale the needles, there just bits of flimsy tin on a Jones,
The problem is below the retainer between the retainer and the knife, billhook, and stripper arm, NOT above,


This is one of the biggest problems, and the first port of call, it needs to be very sharp, no burrs or dull spots.


We don't know anyone that can do that,


10,000 feet balls will be fine, however I would keep away from that string,
String like Cotesi etc seems to be more consistent wherever you get it, branded string seems to be the brand screws the maker down on price and quantity suffers, ok in new balers, but any balers with a lot of bales on them, use Cotesi is my advice, and at £18 a pack you cannot go wrong,


Check the string box tensioner for worn groves, as this let's the string slack, even it you tighten the bolt if its bottomed out, although I don't think this is the problem,
Retainer disc timing could be slightly out due to wear, this might seem OK and is both holding and tying ok, however this wear will retard it slightly, and this means it holds the string nearer the knife, in turn this cuts the string sooner, thus shorter ends on string, the slots for the string need to be right, basically as the string sits in them before the disc moves, if retarded as the disc moves the string drops into the slot fully and looks fine but when it parks it leave the string position nearer the knife, thus shorter ends.
Now the bill hook, it may look as though its shut right, and under tension, but over the years with grease and hay seeds etc, it builds up behind the keeper, count the turns on the keeper spring tensioner nut as you remove it, clean out behind it and replace and reset to same turns on nut,
My guess is it is the knife arm, check that the rollers in the cam are free to turn, and no flat spots on them, also check the stripper is just rubbing, only just and nothing more as it will wear if rubbing hard on the bottom of the bills, if a small gap, the modify it with a hammer in situ, also check the roller is free and no flat spots on tucker finger cam,

All in all first off get some Cotesi 10,000 ft hay twine and start from there

To restart the thread. Tonight I got my hands on some farmers 10000 twine. Ran it though the baler and cranked it over by hand. It managed to make some knots but still very short. They did hold but not perfect.
some pictures of the knots.
Twine knifes are very sharp. Stripper just rubs the bill hook.
When cranking over by hand the knots come out long just not tight so when pulled the tails become extremely short.