Just remember when your paper's Tory,

Back in the day we used to 'snag' turnips (they were actually swedes) - top and tail and put four rows into one so we could come by with a trailer and pitch them in, two at a time, to take in to the yard for the cattle. Hard, back-breaking work in the cold and often wet. We had one traveller who would come and help year after year. He lived in his caravan at the back of the farm, with his wife and small child. Salt of the earth. This law would not stop this kind of existence ie traditional hard working (honest mostly) travelling families.
More recently, on an early morning dog walk round a local path network, was a mini bus type vehicle stopped in the middle of the gravel road next to a stable block, with the engine running. As I walked past I said 'good morning' through the open window at the female driver. She simply looked away and dipped her head so I could not see her face, so I carried on walking. Just then I noticed round the stables two youngish (10 to 12) children looking in everywhere. They saw me and scuttled back to the vehicle and got in. I took a photo of it and the number plate as it drove off. I suspect they 'teach' the kids what to retrieve, as they can not be arrested as they are under age. They know from a very young age what the law is, how to get around it and use every trick in the book to get what they want at everyone else's expense, for as little effort as they can muster.
Just an illustration of a traditional (now very rare) good hard working travelling family, versus what is now generally the norm for the 'mob' encampments. Their way of life does not need protection.
 

egbert

Member
Back in the day we used to 'snag' turnips (they were actually swedes) - top and tail and put four rows into one so we could come by with a trailer and pitch them in, two at a time, to take in to the yard for the cattle. Hard, back-breaking work in the cold and often wet. We had one traveller who would come and help year after year. He lived in his caravan at the back of the farm, with his wife and small child. Salt of the earth. This law would not stop this kind of existence ie traditional hard working (honest mostly) travelling families.
More recently, on an early morning dog walk round a local path network, was a mini bus type vehicle stopped in the middle of the gravel road next to a stable block, with the engine running. As I walked past I said 'good morning' through the open window at the female driver. She simply looked away and dipped her head so I could not see her face, so I carried on walking. Just then I noticed round the stables two youngish (10 to 12) children looking in everywhere. They saw me and scuttled back to the vehicle and got in. I took a photo of it and the number plate as it drove off. I suspect they 'teach' the kids what to retrieve, as they can not be arrested as they are under age. They know from a very young age what the law is, how to get around it and use every trick in the book to get what they want at everyone else's expense, for as little effort as they can muster.
Just an illustration of a traditional (now very rare) good hard working travelling family, versus what is now generally the norm for the 'mob' encampments. Their way of life does not need protection.

Are you sure they were travellers?

I'm really sorry for former generations, many of whom worked hard, and apart from an alleged spot of pilfering, were generally able to live along side everyone else.

Somehow, this has morphed into a situation where the activities of large numbers of ....well, how do you identify them?...live outside the law of the land.
One semi-settled local family I recall from my childhood worked at an honest trade, and earned their money.
I notice 2-3 with the same family name, and living close by, were before the beak for a big list of thieving from farms.
It wasn't the first offence, and is clearly how that arm of the tribe now live.

I would guess that part of the problem has been tolerance in the first instance.
The minute theirs any kind of light touch because of 'ethnicity' claims, the door is open. It simply promotes a lawless culture.
Marrying young and having early and large families hardly helps, if reports are to be believed.
Ducking, then dropping out of school as a culture is clearly harmful.

I forget the chain of events which led to many buying land and developing it barely legally, but that too cause friction and animosity.
I've struggled with a planning matter at some cost, whilst driving past a 'village' of little houses which has appeared over a few years on a bit of land nearby.
I try to stay above bad feelings towards them, but it is clearly a double standard.

I would advocate their being treated the same as everyone else.
And if the invasion of private property becomes a crime, it does so for them and everyone else.
 

stroller

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Somerset UK
The tiny minority of travellers who are criminals must do a lot of miles each years as they seem to travel all over the country as they dump rubbish, thieve, murder coppers, etc etc you'd think the law abiding majority might notice and do something about it it, as they get a bad rep for it.
 
Are you sure they were travellers?

I'm really sorry for former generations, many of whom worked hard, and apart from an alleged spot of pilfering, were generally able to live along side everyone else.

Somehow, this has morphed into a situation where the activities of large numbers of ....well, how do you identify them?...live outside the law of the land.
One semi-settled local family I recall from my childhood worked at an honest trade, and earned their money.
I notice 2-3 with the same family name, and living close by, were before the beak for a big list of thieving from farms.
It wasn't the first offence, and is clearly how that arm of the tribe now live.

I would guess that part of the problem has been tolerance in the first instance.
The minute theirs any kind of light touch because of 'ethnicity' claims, the door is open. It simply promotes a lawless culture.
Marrying young and having early and large families hardly helps, if reports are to be believed.
Ducking, then dropping out of school as a culture is clearly harmful.

I forget the chain of events which led to many buying land and developing it barely legally, but that too cause friction and animosity.
I've struggled with a planning matter at some cost, whilst driving past a 'village' of little houses which has appeared over a few years on a bit of land nearby.
I try to stay above bad feelings towards them, but it is clearly a double standard.

I would advocate their being treated the same as everyone else.
And if the invasion of private property becomes a crime, it does so for them and everyone else.
Can't be 100 % certain but she shouted for them in a distinguishable accent.
 

BrianV

Member
Livestock Farmer
Yeah, you still appear not to have read the bit where I say I've also had very negative experiences with gypsies. That was an example of a positive one.
Yeah, you still appear not to have read the bit where I say I've also had very negative experiences with gypsies. That was an example of a positive one.
Another positive example?

May be an image of dog and text





2 April at 10:51 ·
Unclaimed dogs found Orpington Traveller site. Contact police for more info.Unclaimed dogs
The Dogs below were recovered from a Traveller site in Orpington. All are believed to have been stolen, with some having had Chips removed. Please circulate to your friends and let’s help get these little Guys & Girls back to their rightful families. Call 101 and quote Met Police operation Medusa ( the dogs were recovered in Sept 2020, but this photo was re-broadcast on 17.02.21)
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
Another positive example?

May be an image of dog and text



2 April at 10:51 ·
Unclaimed dogs found Orpington Traveller site. Contact police for more info.Unclaimed dogs
The Dogs below were recovered from a Traveller site in Orpington. All are believed to have been stolen, with some having had Chips removed. Please circulate to your friends and let’s help get these little Guys & Girls back to their rightful families. Call 101 and quote Met Police operation Medusa ( the dogs were recovered in Sept 2020, but this photo was re-broadcast on 17.02.21)

Again.
Some travellers have stolen something - this makes them criminals and they should be prosecuted.
Should we crimialise all travellers for that?
Do you think that criminalising all travellers will make them commit more or less crime?
If it makes them commit more crime, what do you propose we do about that?

You do realise that you are making my earlier point:

"Wherever nomadic and settled groups coexist, there is conflict, and this is often used to bring in draconian legislation of this nature - in almost every authoritarian far right society, it was the Gypsies that were targeted first. "

for me, don't you?
 

BrianV

Member
Livestock Farmer
Again.
Some travellers have stolen something - this makes them criminals and they should be prosecuted.
Should we crimialise all travellers for that?
Do you think that criminalising all travellers will make them commit more or less crime?
If it makes them commit more crime, what do you propose we do about that?

You do realise that you are making my earlier point:

"Wherever nomadic and settled groups coexist, there is conflict, and this is often used to bring in draconian legislation of this nature - in almost every authoritarian far right society, it was the Gypsies that were targeted first. "

for me, don't you?
What a load of horse sh!t, majority of travellers do so because it's an easy way of avoiding prosecution, when things get a little hot they simply move on to their next victims, with no fixed abode the police cannot really prosecute.
How else do you explain where they get the funds to live & buy such expensive caravans etc, permanent honest employment? The police should be able to seize vehicles when they trespass otherwise they are gone, now that would be a law to support!
 
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roscoe erf

Member
Livestock Farmer
 

New report underlines need for joined-up action to protect rivers

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New report underlines need for joined-up action to protect rivers

Written by Defra Press Office

A wide river is in view in a valley in the background, a drystone wall is behind the river, and large, green trees are prominent in the scene.


The Rivers Trust has today launched its State of Our Rivers report aiming to allow the English public understand and explore the health of their rivers on a national and local scale.

Environment Minister Rebecca Pow and Environment Agency Director John Leyland attended the launch panel to discuss the ways in which the...
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