Kelpie vs Huntaway for working sheep

Al R

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Wales
Would they be good cattle dogs Al?
Apparently they make better cattle dogs than sheep dogs. I won’t let the shepherd or the huntaway near cattle though, if either of them got kicked they’d get seriously injured where as a collie should just get lifted into the air as their 18kg and not 40kg
 

Al R

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Wales
I’ve never known sheep like it for piling up 🤦🏻‍♂️
Ever seen a charmoise 🤦🏻‍♂️ I really don’t know what goes through their heads at times, we get the odd “bruising” mark on lamb, only 1 way that is possible and that’s from a charmoise stamping his front legs on another lambs back to try and “get a lift” they also dive under in a race and randomly appear further along and then headbutt you.
 

Dave6170

Member
Dad was shearing at a farm a few years ago and they had normal collies in the pens, smaller type. They had park cheviots and the sheep went up the ramp of the shearing trailer themselves! Must of been terrified of the dogs 😂 cheviots are normally stubborn as hell!
 

Anymulewilldo

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cheshire
Ever seen a charmoise 🤦🏻‍♂️ I really don’t know what goes through their heads at times, we get the odd “bruising” mark on lamb, only 1 way that is possible and that’s from a charmoise stamping his front legs on another lambs back to try and “get a lift” they also dive under in a race and randomly appear further along and then headbutt you.
And there was me toying with the idea of trying a chamoise tup 😂😂
 

Mc115reed

Member
Livestock Farmer
What's the basic way to train them to shut up? I swear I'm going to kill our huntaway one day.
I started off by asking her to speak up when she was near me then tell her to be quiet and if she didn’t squirt her with water out of a bottle didn’t take her long to realise what was going on…. Then at distance if she didn’t shut up when I told her to be quiet I’d tell her get out the pen …
I do get a lot of whimpering now though but I can live with that lol ..
 
I started off by asking her to speak up when she was near me then tell her to be quiet and if she didn’t squirt her with water out of a bottle didn’t take her long to realise what was going on…. Then at distance if she didn’t shut up when I told her to be quiet I’d tell her get out the pen …
I do get a lot of whimpering now though but I can live with that lol ..
The more we tell him to shut up the more he answers back. He'll walk round the empty pen wagging his tail and barking his head off like he's really enjoying himself 🙄
 
Why they won’t push up would just be down to training not breed, if they can teach them to dance the tango an climb ladders an all such nonsense then getting them to push there natural opponent up a race should be straight forward! I know several collies that unload 4deckers all day long, the only thing they don’t do is open the gates, they just ram their self under/through/around to the back of the partition every time, it’s just what they’ve been encouraged to do repeatedly
when I was in Australia, the neighbour to the farm I was working on, was telling me, the best way to load a race is to have a dog that is willing to run under the sheep in the race, that made them really fill the race. Remember this was nearly 40 years ago (so I guess dogs were cheaper). He said, he used to pull the puppies/young dog under the sheep in a pen on a piece of string, and if the dog was too scared he would shoot it, and get another!
 

Uggman

Member
Livestock Farmer
You need a Shepherd! Rams wouldn’t dare even face mine! @CopperBeech has seen videos of her 🤣 Still training her. On the fixed setup if you let the sheep fill themselves I can get 20 big ewes in the dosing pen, with human encouragement/shakers up to 28 ewes. With the huntaway behind probably 34 ewes. With the shepherd, around 40 ewes! Work rate like a kelpie, size of a big huntaway and agility of a collie. View attachment 1045710
Does anyone know of any other German shepherd working dogs and is yours just a pen dog or do you use it out in the fields to l think originally they were used along fences or as a fence. I've always liked them as dogs.
 

Boso

Member
Does anyone know of any other German shepherd working dogs and is yours just a pen dog or do you use it out in the fields to l think originally they were used along fences or as a fence. I've always liked them as dogs.
I work a malinois x gsd bitch. (Protection and detection parents).
Is a tending dog, not a dog to gather. Can do it but not what they have been designed for.
Will work sheep and cattle. Takes no prisoners, deep bark and not afraid. Will work in a pen.

Also have a Schafpudel (which is also a german shepherd) looks a bit like a bearded collie. Also a tending dog by breeding/nature. Good in a pen.
I have a kelpie to gather however with lambs he can annoy me with slowing down and having to much eye.
Tending dogs have zero eye, energy level can be an issue. They are used to trotting 100klm a day.

Downside to these shepherd dogs is their size. Both my bitches are +- 30kg. The kelpie dog is only 17kg. Does make a difference when getting hurt.
 

Al R

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Wales
I work a malinois x gsd bitch. (Protection and detection parents).
Is a tending dog, not a dog to gather. Can do it but not what they have been designed for.
Will work sheep and cattle. Takes no prisoners, deep bark and not afraid. Will work in a pen.

Also have a Schafpudel (which is also a german shepherd) looks a bit like a bearded collie. Also a tending dog by breeding/nature. Good in a pen.
I have a kelpie to gather however with lambs he can annoy me with slowing down and having to much eye.
Tending dogs have zero eye, energy level can be an issue. They are used to trotting 100klm a day.

Downside to these shepherd dogs is their size. Both my bitches are +- 30kg. The kelpie dog is only 17kg. Does make a difference when getting hurt.
I don’t think I’d cope with a Malinois, pure insane work rates! Must be an absolute animal in pens if taught right!

Yeah the weight with the dogs is a big issue, huntaway 3 year old bitch is 42kg, if she has 3 big days in a row she gets sore legs, the Shepherd bitch is 35kg and 13 months old, at 8 months old we clocked her doing 27mph uphill

The shepherd was originally bought as a housedog but she sees her friends working and started jumping field gates to help them out. So teaching her in the pens to not grip sheep as the drive to kill is high on their priority list, by muzzling her only when working for a few weeks it gave us peace of mind not to have to watch her continuously and she quickly lost the attractiveness of attacking/drawing blood.

I let her go in a field the other day, not sure how to get a video on here.

These 2 are best friends and go everywhere together, the collies think their odd 🤣
0544CE5A-74F7-465F-BEC6-341E8BF8A871.jpeg
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Sheepykid

Member
Do you guys go for puppies and train them up or buy trained dogs from sales? I’ve mostly had puppies and sent them away for training. But I have had two trained dogs before. One was okay one was complete rubbish. Wouldn’t do a thing for me.
 

Wood field

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Pennines
Do you guys go for puppies and train them up or buy trained dogs from sales? I’ve mostly had puppies and sent them away for training. But I have had two trained dogs before. One was okay one was complete rubbish. Wouldn’t do a thing for me.
I’ve not trained a dog before, send our pups away
I’ve 2 bitch pups now sent off to a good and well recommended trainer, he phoned the other day and said sorry they just won’t work, no interest at all
Strange as I had a battle to stop both of them diving under a gate and chasing sheep
Anyway I arranged to go and see the dogs and sure enough the first one just sat and looked at the ( here’s the clue) well dogged sheep, second dog with me running about started going round and nipping the backside of the sheep.. anyway we left her with the trainer and brought first pup home , I’ve been out with main dog and pup gathering some in bye ewes and she’s as keen as mustard 🤔
I can only say certain dogs just “take “ to you and others can be brilliant for one guy and absolute pan lickers for another person
 

Sheepykid

Member
I’ve not trained a dog before, send our pups away
I’ve 2 bitch pups now sent off to a good and well recommended trainer, he phoned the other day and said sorry they just won’t work, no interest at all
Strange as I had a battle to stop both of them diving under a gate and chasing sheep
Anyway I arranged to go and see the dogs and sure enough the first one just sat and looked at the ( here’s the clue) well dogged sheep, second dog with me running about started going round and nipping the backside of the sheep.. anyway we left her with the trainer and brought first pup home , I’ve been out with main dog and pup gathering some in bye ewes and she’s as keen as mustard 🤔
I can only say certain dogs just “take “ to you and others can be brilliant for one guy and absolute pan lickers for another person
My concern with the trained dogs is being able to create that bond with them. It’s just not the same as a puppy as far as attachment to us. The bad one I had that I couldn’t get on with kept clearing off and I couldn’t get her back. Done that for years. The other trained one we had was brilliant. And lovely tempered with the kids. I guess it’s all about luck.
 

Wood field

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Pennines
My concern with the trained dogs is being able to create that bond with them. It’s just not the same as a puppy as far as attachment to us. The bad one I had that I couldn’t get on with kept clearing off and I couldn’t get her back. Done that for years. The other trained one we had was brilliant. And lovely tempered with the kids. I guess it’s all about luck.
I had a very good pup from 7 weeks old , sent her off at 10 months for schooling and she was gone nearly 5 months! Lucky it was a favour
He came back and was useless, it took another 12 months of tearing what’s left of my hair out before he come to, however if I was hard on him he would run off , you just don’t know what the previous owner or trainer has done
 

Nithsdale Farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Do you guys go for puppies and train them up or buy trained dogs from sales? I’ve mostly had puppies and sent them away for training. But I have had two trained dogs before. One was okay one was complete rubbish. Wouldn’t do a thing for me.

Last 3 dogs I've had, have came 'part broken' and have learned on the job. I have a dvd on training dogs just to remind me what to do if things aren't going well...

but the best thing is just to use the dog 1-on-1... If the dog will work in the first place, you learn each other and form the bond. My old boy (my avatar) is 12, I've had since he was 3. Supposedly he wasn't very good when I got him. We aren't fancy but I have never been stuck with him and for the majority of his time here he was my only dog. Anyone who has seen us working has been impressed with him.. I put a lot of time in with him holding and shifting the weaned lambs the first autumn he was here.


His teammate is a young bitch. She has the potential but I'll confess I'm not using her 1-on-1 enough to get the best out of her. She just copies the old boy without needing to think... but the old boy is nearing, retirement so her time is here and she will have to step up.

(Plan was to get pups from them before he's too old, but they've never quite got there - not for a lack of trying mind 🤣)
 

Mc115reed

Member
Livestock Farmer
Do you guys go for puppies and train them up or buy trained dogs from sales? I’ve mostly had puppies and sent them away for training. But I have had two trained dogs before. One was okay one was complete rubbish. Wouldn’t do a thing for me.
I bought my kelpie as fully trained… Welsh pr*ck kept making excuses which meant I couldn’t go see him work her… so instead I had her as a trial and he would have her back if I couldn’t get on with her after 3 months… paid him £750 deposit… soon as I realised she barely knew the lay down command I phoned him and he’d blocked me 🤦‍♂️ With the help of BATWK somebody part trained her for me and I’m still training her now but I can do most things with her. It’s quite satisfying tbh I’d Definitely train another dog
 

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HSENI names new farm safety champions

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

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The Health and Safety Executive for Northern Ireland (HSENI) alongside the Farm Safety Partnership (FSP), has named new farm safety champions and commended the outstanding work on farm safety that has been carried out in the farming community in the last 20 years.

Two of these champions are Malcom Downey, retired principal inspector for the Agri/Food team in HSENI and Harry Sinclair, current chair of the Farm Safety Partnership and former president of the Ulster Farmers’ Union (UFU).

Improving farm safety is the key aim of HSENI’s and the FSP’s work and...
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