Kuhn vs kverneland four furrow plough

Joshherbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
Hi guys
I’m pricing up a few four furrow ploughs. And was wondering if anyone knew which had the lighter lift requirements? The ploughs are a kv ES 80, a Kuhn 121 and a Kuhn 122. Also if anyone wants to continue the debate about which is the better plough then be my guest. I’ll be pulling the plough with a MF 5713s (efficient) with 600kg suitcase weights on the front. I’ve got plenty of experience ploughing with the kv EG85 which is the heavier version of the Es80, but have never ploughed with a Kuhn. We plough mostly peat and clay soils where I’m located, and loft requirements are always the most important aspect because getting stuck is very easy on peat soils 😂.
Cheers
 

DrDunc

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Dunsyre
I changed from an ES kverneland on no. 3s to an H bodied Kuhn 121, both 4 fur.

KV is definitely lighter, and closer coupled. Kuhn is also longer, and needs more lift height to turn.

Kuhn is by far and away the better plough. Much easier to pull, whatever the soil (I've everything here from sand to black peat). Far greater degree of adjustments, especially to the all important skimmers. I've never once thought the Kuhn needed more than the single disc in the rear fur. The mould boards totally invert the fur, whether it's sandy stubble ground or dry solid ancient grassland roots. It'll plough across steep hillsides and still turn the fur the same whether it's throwing uphill or downwards.

The KV left the fur sitting more upright, and the surface more broken. This was easier to work down than the Kuhn if the soil was loose. In heavier clay or peat the "upright" finish needed a bigger bash with the power Harrow, and sods weren't always buried.

Finally, the hydraulic reset Kuhn makes the KV leaf spring design feel exactly like it is: ancient. Ploughing 6 inches of topsoil above a bed off rock is much easier. You wouldn't want to go back to solid wheels with spade lugs, so why use a plough that's from a similar period in ancient design history?

Now that the Kuhn has been praised for being superior in every way to a KV, back to the weight ...... I'd say you'll struggling lifting the Kuhn with your Massey. If it does hoist it up, 600kg on the nose isn't likely to keep it there, or give the front wheels enough purchase when it's working.

Hopefully someone will be along to contradict my opinion upon the lifting capacity and traction of your Massey, because the Kuhn is without doubt a far superior plough in every other way than it's weight.
 

Joshherbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
I changed from an ES kverneland on no. 3s to an H bodied Kuhn 121, both 4 fur.

KV is definitely lighter, and closer coupled. Kuhn is also longer, and needs more lift height to turn.

Kuhn is by far and away the better plough. Much easier to pull, whatever the soil (I've everything here from sand to black peat). Far greater degree of adjustments, especially to the all important skimmers. I've never once thought the Kuhn needed more than the single disc in the rear fur. The mould boards totally invert the fur, whether it's sandy stubble ground or dry solid ancient grassland roots. It'll plough across steep hillsides and still turn the fur the same whether it's throwing uphill or downwards.

The KV left the fur sitting more upright, and the surface more broken. This was easier to work down than the Kuhn if the soil was loose. In heavier clay or peat the "upright" finish needed a bigger bash with the power Harrow, and sods weren't always buried.

Finally, the hydraulic reset Kuhn makes the KV leaf spring design feel exactly like it is: ancient. Ploughing 6 inches of topsoil above a bed off rock is much easier. You wouldn't want to go back to solid wheels with spade lugs, so why use a plough that's from a similar period in ancient design history?

Now that the Kuhn has been praised for being superior in every way to a KV, back to the weight ...... I'd say you'll struggling lifting the Kuhn with your Massey. If it does hoist it up, 600kg on the nose isn't likely to keep it there, or give the front wheels enough purchase when it's working.

Hopefully someone will be along to contradict my opinion upon the lifting capacity and traction of your Massey, because the Kuhn is without doubt a far superior plough in every other way than it's weight.
Thanks for that mate. The lift capacity is rated to 5 tonne on the Massey. But as you stated, it does get very light on the front by that point and a lot of control is lost.
im also hoping someone comes to contradict because the Kuhn is becoming very attractive based on its capability and it’s price tag.
 

daveydiesel1

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Co antrim
Hi guys
I’m pricing up a few four furrow ploughs. And was wondering if anyone knew which had the lighter lift requirements? The ploughs are a kv ES 80, a Kuhn 121 and a Kuhn 122. Also if anyone wants to continue the debate about which is the better plough then be my guest. I’ll be pulling the plough with a MF 5713s (efficient) with 600kg suitcase weights on the front. I’ve got plenty of experience ploughing with the kv EG85 which is the heavier version of the Es80, but have never ploughed with a Kuhn. We plough mostly peat and clay soils where I’m located, and loft requirements are always the most important aspect because getting stuck is very easy on peat soils 😂.
Cheers
Have you looked at a nh/kongskilde plough? Got a nh here 4 furrow and despite being laughed at behind my back and talked down to by the locals about how good a kv is im deadly happy with it in every way
 

MrNoo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Cirencester
I changed from an ES kverneland on no. 3s to an H bodied Kuhn 121, both 4 fur.

KV is definitely lighter, and closer coupled. Kuhn is also longer, and needs more lift height to turn.

Kuhn is by far and away the better plough. Much easier to pull, whatever the soil (I've everything here from sand to black peat). Far greater degree of adjustments, especially to the all important skimmers. I've never once thought the Kuhn needed more than the single disc in the rear fur. The mould boards totally invert the fur, whether it's sandy stubble ground or dry solid ancient grassland roots. It'll plough across steep hillsides and still turn the fur the same whether it's throwing uphill or downwards.

The KV left the fur sitting more upright, and the surface more broken. This was easier to work down than the Kuhn if the soil was loose. In heavier clay or peat the "upright" finish needed a bigger bash with the power Harrow, and sods weren't always buried.

Finally, the hydraulic reset Kuhn makes the KV leaf spring design feel exactly like it is: ancient. Ploughing 6 inches of topsoil above a bed off rock is much easier. You wouldn't want to go back to solid wheels with spade lugs, so why use a plough that's from a similar period in ancient design history?

Now that the Kuhn has been praised for being superior in every way to a KV, back to the weight ...... I'd say you'll struggling lifting the Kuhn with your Massey. If it does hoist it up, 600kg on the nose isn't likely to keep it there, or give the front wheels enough purchase when it's working.

Hopefully someone will be along to contradict my opinion upon the lifting capacity and traction of your Massey, because the Kuhn is without doubt a far superior plough in every other way than it's weight.
Exactly this, I came from KV, had a LD and then an ED (I think) bought a Kuhn 5 furrow and it is exactly as said above, no welding needed a joy to use. But yes it is quite heavy. Forget which boards I have on it H4 rings a bell and are slightly deep boards for ground around here, we have very little topsoil on the brash in places, the KV No8 board turned it nicely very shallow where the H4 struggles a tad but then I dare say I have the wrong board on my Kuhn. Get it going anywhere else with a tad more top soil and it's a fantastic plough
 

Joshherbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
I changed from an ES kverneland on no. 3s to an H bodied Kuhn 121, both 4 fur.

KV is definitely lighter, and closer coupled. Kuhn is also longer, and needs more lift height to turn.

Kuhn is by far and away the better plough. Much easier to pull, whatever the soil (I've everything here from sand to black peat). Far greater degree of adjustments, especially to the all important skimmers. I've never once thought the Kuhn needed more than the single disc in the rear fur. The mould boards totally invert the fur, whether it's sandy stubble ground or dry solid ancient grassland roots. It'll plough across steep hillsides and still turn the fur the same whether it's throwing uphill or downwards.

The KV left the fur sitting more upright, and the surface more broken. This was easier to work down than the Kuhn if the soil was loose. In heavier clay or peat the "upright" finish needed a bigger bash with the power Harrow, and sods weren't always buried.

Finally, the hydraulic reset Kuhn makes the KV leaf spring design feel exactly like it is: ancient. Ploughing 6 inches of topsoil above a bed off rock is much easier. You wouldn't want to go back to solid wheels with spade lugs, so why use a plough that's from a similar period in ancient design history?

Now that the Kuhn has been praised for being superior in every way to a KV, back to the weight ...... I'd say you'll struggling lifting the Kuhn with your Massey. If it does hoist it up, 600kg on the nose isn't likely to keep it there, or give the front wheels enough purchase when it's working.

Hopefully someone will be along to contradict my opinion upon the lifting capacity and traction of your Massey, because the Kuhn is without doubt a far superior plough in every other way than it's weight.
I’ve also got a couple of Kuhn 112 and 110’s around, but I was under the impression that 140 horse power would pull one of those to bits. Does anyone have any experience with those ploughs?
 

jre

Member
Location
East Fife
I’ve also got a couple of Kuhn 112 and 110’s around, but I was under the impression that 140 horse power would pull one of those to bits. Does anyone have any experience with those ploughs?
Got a 4 furrow 112 autoreset here, pull it with either a jd 6620 or 6420s. Think it's 9 year old now. We've got some very very heavy clay that takes some ploughing. Never had a problem with it at all. No broken beams or headstocks like a lot of local kvs. Quite a few kuhns around here now.
 

balerman

Member
Location
N Devon
I’ve got a Kuhn 122 4f auto reset,use it on a case maxxum 115 long wheelbase with 500kg on the front.It’s only just enough weight so your MF will struggle.A shear bolt 122 would be lighter tho.
 

Joshherbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
Is a 121 much lighter? And the MF is just as heavy as your case. And slightly more horse power so hopefully it would handle it.
I’ve got a Kuhn 122 4f auto reset,use it on a case maxxum 115 long wheelbase with 500kg on the front.It’s only just enough weight so your MF will struggle.A shear bolt 122 would be lighter tho.
 

KB6930

Member
Location
Borders
Hi guys
I’m pricing up a few four furrow ploughs. And was wondering if anyone knew which had the lighter lift requirements? The ploughs are a kv ES 80, a Kuhn 121 and a Kuhn 122. Also if anyone wants to continue the debate about which is the better plough then be my guest. I’ll be pulling the plough with a MF 5713s (efficient) with 600kg suitcase weights on the front. I’ve got plenty of experience ploughing with the kv EG85 which is the heavier version of the Es80, but have never ploughed with a Kuhn. We plough mostly peat and clay soils where I’m located, and loft requirements are always the most important aspect because getting stuck is very easy on peat soils 😂.
Cheers
There's very little weight difference if any between an EG and ES KV if any I've had both at the same time .
Do kv make an 80cm clearance plough I've only ever seen 85 unless it's an old 1 you're asking about?
 

Joshherbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
There's very little weight difference if any between an EG and ES KV if any I've had both at the same time .
Do kv make an 80cm clearance plough I've only ever seen 85 unless it's an old 1 you're asking about?
Yea it’s a second hand ES, according to the kverneland website the ES takes 1000 less kgs to lift. I’ve had an EG 85 on the Massey and it struggled. So I would be hoping the ES 80 was lighter. I’ve narrowed down my search to a Kuhn 113 and the kv ES 80. Due to the lighter lift requirements.
 

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KB6930

Member
Location
Borders
Yea it’s a second hand ES, according to the kverneland website the ES takes 1000 less kgs to lift. I’ve had an EG 85 on the Massey and it struggled. So I would be hoping the ES 80 was lighter. I’ve narrowed down my search to a Kuhn 113 and the kv ES 80. Due to the lighter lift requirements.
I had a look at an es 80 in an advert that's a pretty old plough and is a very light beam in comparison to the more recent es /eg ploughs as said I've got / had es and eg 5 furrow 100 clearance and I'd actually say the eg was lighter on the tractor than es is but never weighed it
 

Finn farmer

Member
We have a Kuhn Multi Master 4 furrow with plastic bodies and hydraulic "springs". We had it on MF 5610 and did 100's of acres with the combination. Your MF will have more than enough lift height for the plough to turn comfortably (on JD you'd have to think a bit before you turn it). We've everything from clay to peat and the plough handles all inbetween. We had a front loader on the Massey always, so a bit of weight on the front.

Both pictures from the same 240 ac field, but from opposite corners. Took some time to get it done (this one has peat around the field and really tight clay in the middle). :ROFLMAO:


FB_IMG_1644914290844.jpg


FB_IMG_1644914332383.jpg
 
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daveydiesel1

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Co antrim
We have a Kuhn Multi Master 4 furrow with plastic bodies and hydraulic "springs". We had it on MF 5610 and did 100's of acres with the combination. Your MF will have more than enough lift height for the plough to turn comfortably (on JD you'd have to think a bit before you turn it). We've everything from clay to peat and the plough handles all inbetween. We had a front loader on the Massey always, so a bit of weight on the front.

Both pictures from the same 240 ac field, but from opposite corners. Took some time to get it done (this one has peat around the field and really tight clay in the middle). :ROFLMAO:


View attachment 1016902

View attachment 1016903
Finally meetin some1 else on here with plastic boards
 

Finn farmer

Member
Finally meetin some1 else on here with plastic boards
They are really nice. They can take some beating and nothing seems to stick to them. And they make the plough a bit lighter too. :LOL: Can't really fault them.

Friend had KV with plastic boards on demo and liked them, but couldn't buy them because he'd have to sand down the scratches after each day (he washes and oils his plough after every day, even if he's going to be ploughing the next day). :ROFLMAO:
 
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Joshherbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
We have a Kuhn Multi Master 4 furrow with plastic bodies and hydraulic "springs". We had it on MF 5610 and did 100's of acres with the combination. Your MF will have more than enough lift height for the plough to turn comfortably (on JD you'd have to think a bit before you turn it). We've everything from clay to peat and the plough handles all inbetween. We had a front loader on the Massey always, so a bit of weight on the front.

Both pictures from the same 240 ac field, but from opposite corners. Took some time to get it done (this one has peat around the field and really tight clay in the middle). :ROFLMAO:


View attachment 1016902

View attachment 1016903
What make was your plough? And thanks for that mate. I’ve always used plastic boards as well. Dirt doesn’t seem to stick and they’re cheap to replace.
 

Finn farmer

Member
What make was your plough? And thanks for that mate. I’ve always used plastic boards as well. Dirt doesn’t seem to stick and they’re cheap to replace.
Iirc it's a Kuhn MultiMaster 122 year 2014. Can't confirm it though, since it's 50km away. Won't be going anywhere in a long time, we may add a 5th pair of bodies to it in some point.
 

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Man fined £300 for bonfire-related waste offences

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

court-640x360.jpg
A man has pleaded guilty at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court to waste offences relating to a bonfire next to the electrical sub-station on the Circular Road in Newtownards, Co. Down.

Gareth Gill (51) of Abbot’s Walk, Newtownards pleaded guilty to two charges under the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, for which he was fined £150 each and ordered to pay a £15 offender’s levy

On June 25, 2018, PSNI officers went to Gill’s yard, where they found a large amount of waste consisting of scrap wood, pallets, carpet and underlay.

Discussion with Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) officers confirmed the site...
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