Kuhn vs kverneland four furrow plough

balerman

Member
Location
N Devon
Ok so without studying a manual it looks like that outside 1 is too long so it's not pull the beam far enough round it was probably better at a narrower furrow width but at 18 it cznt do it ?
Thats what the spacers are for,take them all out for 18 inch,1 for 16 etc.So in theory it should be right,unless someone has been there before...
 

Joshherbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
So what does the threaded adjustment do to it on the other 1 ? Does it alter the angle as well to get the front furrow width set ?
Yea it alters the angle to bring the front furrow wider or narrower. It is currently set so that the front furrow is taking 18 inches.
that outside cylinder is set as short as it can go and so I can’t widen the plough any further to make the bodies sit straight
 

KB6930

Member
Location
Borders
Yea it alters the angle to bring the front furrow wider or narrower. It is currently set so that the front furrow is taking 18 inches.
that outside cylinder is set as short as it can go and so I can’t widen the plough any further to make the bodies sit straight
So in my head the only way it will work is to set your wheels away out wide ? And you'll already be at 72 inch 1.8 m centres by the look of it ?

I'd send it back if I was you !!
 

DrDunc

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Dunsyre
The spacers are all out already…….
What news on the length "L1", the middle furrow width/alignment ram?

Looking back at your photos, there seems to be a lot of thread showing at the end of the rod into the clamp compared to my plough?

Presume the front furrow width is ploughing at 18"? Even if, there has to be one of the spacer set link lengths wrong somewhere for the plough to crab so dramatically!
 

Joshherbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
So in my head the only way it will work is to set your wheels away out wide ? And you'll already be at 72 inch 1.8 m centres by the look of it ?

I'd send it back if I was you !!
The wheels are already at 130cm inside to inside. So I suppose I could widen then. I’d love to be able to send it back, but sadly it’s the only second hand plough within 1000km of me so it’s about my only option haha
 

Joshherbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
What news on the length "L1", the middle furrow width/alignment ram?

Looking back at your photos, there seems to be a lot of thread showing at the end of the rod into the clamp compared to my plough?

Presume the front furrow width is ploughing at 18"? Even if, there has to be one of the spacer set link lengths wrong somewhere for the plough to crab so dramatically!
So I adjusted L1 slightly which made the front furrow then plough at less than 18 inches. But I’ve also tried a couple other things since then. I’ve adjusted the front wheel widths on the tractor ant put more air in the rear tires as well as more weight on the front of the tractor so that the rear tyres have narrower (ie they’re tighter so that they fit in the furrow better) and all of that has fixed the problem to a degree.
I’m actually debating getting the grinder out and cutting the fixed spacer off of the outside ram? So that the cylinder can close further and therefore bring the plough around further? From looking, I don’t think the cylinder is at its full stroke when it hits that permanent stopper so potentially it would allow it to close further? I’ll show what I mean.
 

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Jamer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Glos
The wheels are already at 130cm inside to inside. So I suppose I could widen then. I’d love to be able to send it back, but sadly it’s the only second hand plough within 1000km of me so it’s about my only option haha
Those blue stickers, if they’re still legible give you the measurements you should have on the threads of the cylinder rod ends to match the track width of your tractor. Both cylinder threads are adjusted if you need to change to suit your tractor.
 

Joshherbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
Those blue stickers, if they’re still legible give you the measurements you should have on the threads of the cylinder rod ends to match the track width of your tractor. Both cylinder threads are adjusted if you need to change to suit your tractor.
Yea, I’ve got both of the threads set to the correct length to suit the tractor.
 

balerman

Member
Location
N Devon
The wheels are already at 130cm inside to inside. So I suppose I could widen then. I’d love to be able to send it back, but sadly it’s the only second hand plough within 1000km of me so it’s about my only option haha
As long as the beam and legs arent bent,they are easy ploughs to set up really.There must be something basic wrong with yours if only we could find it.Do the tips and mouldboards line up when its in the air? you may not be able to tell when its parked up due to the hydraulic reset.
 

KB6930

Member
Location
Borders
The wheels are already at 130cm inside to inside. So I suppose I could widen then. I’d love to be able to send it back, but sadly it’s the only second hand plough within 1000km of me so it’s about my only option haha
Yeah ploughs will be limited right enough but no point making a half job .

Is there nothing else to move on it ? At least on a kv once you run out of adjustment on the ram there's something to swap round it's a bit of work but can help a lot?
 

DrDunc

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Dunsyre
So I adjusted L1 slightly which made the front furrow then plough at less than 18 inches. But I’ve also tried a couple other things since then. I’ve adjusted the front wheel widths on the tractor ant put more air in the rear tires as well as more weight on the front of the tractor so that the rear tyres have narrower (ie they’re tighter so that they fit in the furrow better) and all of that has fixed the problem to a degree.
I’m actually debating getting the grinder out and cutting the fixed spacer off of the outside ram? So that the cylinder can close further and therefore bring the plough around further? From looking, I don’t think the cylinder is at its full stroke when it hits that permanent stopper so potentially it would allow it to close further? I’ll show what I mean.

Ah now, someone once said something like when all possibilities are exhausted, what's left must be the impossible

Think @balerman has already suggested front track width, and playing with tyre pressures has helped, soooo....

When ploughing, what angle is the top link when you look down on it out the cab? When you've L1 distance set for front furrow 18", is the top link straight behind or leaning towards the ploughing?

You've a plough relatively big for a relatively lightweight tractor that'll be pulling hard, have you got a lot of wheel slip that's causing the tractor to crab, and pull the plough off true?

Presumably the check "chains" on the tractor lower arms are free to allow the plough to move side to side?

Just out of curiosity, have you tried ploughing a couple of rows after fixing the links so that can't sway and the plough itself is forced to run parallel with the tractor?





EDIT

My thinking is that the plough geometry measures correctly, so is the problem with the tractor setup?
 

Joshherbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
As long as the beam and legs arent bent,they are easy ploughs to set up really.There must be something basic wrong with yours if only we could find it.Do the tips and mouldboards line up when its in the air? you may not be able to tell when its parked up due to the hydraulic reset.
Yea they line up
 

Joshherbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
Ah now, someone once said something like when all possibilities are exhausted, what's left must be the impossible

Think @balerman has already suggested front track width, and playing with tyre pressures has helped, soooo....

When ploughing, what angle is the top link when you look down on it out the cab? When you've L1 distance set for front furrow 18", is the top link straight behind or leaning towards the ploughing?

You've a plough relatively big for a relatively lightweight tractor that'll be pulling hard, have you got a lot of wheel slip that's causing the tractor to crab, and pull the plough off true?

Presumably the check "chains" on the tractor lower arms are free to allow the plough to move side to side?

Just out of curiosity, have you tried ploughing a couple of rows after fixing the links so that can't sway and the plough itself is forced to run parallel with the tractor?





EDIT

My thinking is that the plough geometry measures correctly, so is the problem with the tractor setup?
This is very much what I’ve been thinking ! The check chains are free to move and you’re correct that the top link isn’t sitting straight behind the tractor, it’s leaning into the ploughed ground. I had assumed it was because of the plough set up. But my thinking has been that perhaps I should tighten the check chains and test it with them fixed in the centre.
however I would like to clarify that the plough isn’t large for the tractor and the tractor in fact handles it like it’s not there.
but yea I’ll definitely try fixing the check chains and hopefully it’ll make a difference.

Is anyone opposed to me cutting those fixed stoppers off??
 
This is very much what I’ve been thinking ! The check chains are free to move and you’re correct that the top link isn’t sitting straight behind the tractor, it’s leaning into the ploughed ground. I had assumed it was because of the plough set up. But my thinking has been that perhaps I should tighten the check chains and test it with them fixed in the centre.
however I would like to clarify that the plough isn’t large for the tractor and the tractor in fact handles it like it’s not there.
but yea I’ll definitely try fixing the check chains and hopefully it’ll make a difference.

Is anyone opposed to me cutting those fixed stoppers off??
Stop peeing around and give the Norwood team at Palmerston North a call. they will be able to advise you properly
 

KB6930

Member
Location
Borders
This is very much what I’ve been thinking ! The check chains are free to move and you’re correct that the top link isn’t sitting straight behind the tractor, it’s leaning into the ploughed ground. I had assumed it was because of the plough set up. But my thinking has been that perhaps I should tighten the check chains and test it with them fixed in the centre.
however I would like to clarify that the plough isn’t large for the tractor and the tractor in fact handles it like it’s not there.
but yea I’ll definitely try fixing the check chains and hopefully it’ll make a difference.

Is anyone opposed to me cutting those fixed stoppers off??
If top link is a long way off I'd say definitely plough setup a wee bit is negligible.

If it's away to the ploughed land and the plough looks like it's adjusted as far the other way as it'll go ?

I'd try shortening that threaded adjustment right in and see what happens to it
 

DrDunc

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Dunsyre
This is very much what I’ve been thinking ! The check chains are free to move and you’re correct that the top link isn’t sitting straight behind the tractor, it’s leaning into the ploughed ground. I had assumed it was because of the plough set up. But my thinking has been that perhaps I should tighten the check chains and test it with them fixed in the centre.
however I would like to clarify that the plough isn’t large for the tractor and the tractor in fact handles it like it’s not there.
but yea I’ll definitely try fixing the check chains and hopefully it’ll make a difference.

Is anyone opposed to me cutting those fixed stoppers off??
Cutting bits off the plough isn't going to fix the problem if they aren't causing it!!!!

Is the plough turnover lean angle correct? Is the plough pitch correct?

Is the front tyre outer track width the same as the rear outer track width?

Are you inadvertently turning the steering into the ploughing and causing the tractor and plough to run crabbed?

If you let go of the steering where does the tractor want to go, straight, out the fur, out into the ploughing?

What tyre pressures are you running? Are the tyres worn evenly? What percentage wheel slip are you getting? Is the diff lock engaged?

There's many, many things left to investigate, alter, and adjust before starting to cut bits off 🤣🤣🤣
 

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