Kyle Rittenhouse

[Cheesehead]

Kyle was 100% in the right. Such a shame the UK does not have similar weapon and self defence laws. There’d quickly be less poachers and quad thefts would cease!

Other than the weapons laws as in what is allowed and what isn't the self defense laws are actually rather similar and actually in most states are actually stricter. As both here and there you can use reasonable force in self defense hence how the pensioner faced no charges after stabbing a burglar with a screwdriver which the burglar was brandishing when he advanced on him. As in both places you can not use deadly force when the person is retreating ie. you can't stab them in the back. I maybe wrong but unlike most states we don't have to prove we couldn't safely retreat.

Yeah, because nobody steals anything in the USA, do they?

In fact, remind me how the crime rate there compares to here?
Robberies about the same, violent crime much more prevalent in the USA


Comparing soldiers to armed vigilante groups is pretty sickening.

Technically it could be argued that the USA was founded by armed vigilantes and militias when they fought for independence though I dare say most say most saw themselves as soldiers fighting for their country.

But I do agree the comparison is in poor taste

Very little theft in armed rural areas. My friends in Texas and Missouri don’t take the keys out the pickup ignition.

Don't forget though a lot of rural America makes the Dales, Moors and Highlands look positively cosmopolitan you also have the fact that most don't have a police force in the same way as ours instead they have elected sheriffs which also encourages them to actively tackle crime. You also have the fact that unlike the majority of the US here organised gangs can nick £30k of equipment and be out of the country before it has even been noticed which makes it a lot harder to catch and prosecute those involved when even countries like Germany even when we were a part of the EU would not deport a citizen to face trial in another country.

 

[SteveHants]

Thought so, you'd just let it burn.

Its the job of law enforcement to deal with that, not mine - I've got no training in crowd control and, were I to "do a Kyle" (as it were) all I would be doing is (as he did) is making the situation worse.

Egging on armed vigilantes is quite dangerous (see my previous post about blackshirts).

 

[unlacedgecko]

Other than the weapons laws as in what is allowed and what isn't the self defense laws are actually rather similar and actually in most states are actually stricter. As both here and there you can use reasonable force in self defense hence how the pensioner faced no charges after stabbing a burglar with a screwdriver which the burglar was brandishing when he advanced on him. As in both places you can not use deadly force when the person is retreating ie. you can't stab them in the back. I maybe wrong but unlike most states we don't have to prove we couldn't safely retreat.

Technically it could be argued that the USA was founded by armed vigilantes and militias when they fought for independence though I dare say most say most saw themselves as soldiers fighting for their country.

But I do agree the comparison is in poor taste


Don't forget though a lot of rural America makes the Dales, Moors and Highlands look positively cosmopolitan you also have the fact that most don't have a police force in the same way as ours instead they have elected sheriffs which also encourages them to actively tackle crime. You also have the fact that unlike the majority of the US here organised gangs can nick £30k of equipment and be out of the country before it has even been noticed which makes it a lot harder to catch and prosecute those involved when even countries like Germany even when we were a part of the EU would not deport a citizen to face trial in another country.

US castle laws and stand your ground laws mean criminals have a much harder time.

 

[SteveHants]

US castle laws and stand your ground laws mean criminals have a much harder time.

And yet the USA has much higher levels of violent crime than we do.

 

[unlacedgecko]

Its the job of law enforcement to deal with that, not mine - I've got no training in crowd control and, were I to "do a Kyle" (as it were) all I would be doing is (as he did) is making the situation worse.

Egging on armed vigilantes is quite dangerous (see my previous post about blackshirts).

And when law enforcement abjectly fail to do their job? As they did in the BLM riots, and as they continually do in rural UK?

 

[unlacedgecko]

And yet the USA has much higher levels of violent crime than we do.

In the cities. As I’ve said, rural crime is much lower.

 

[Guleesh]

Its the job of law enforcement to deal with that, not mine - I've got no training in crowd control and, were I to "do a Kyle" (as it were) all I would be doing is (as he did) is making the situation worse.

Egging on armed vigilantes is quite dangerous (see my previous post about blackshirts).

Now we're getting somewhere, it's the job of law enforcement, nothing to do with me... so what do you do when the law enforcement isn't dealing with it? and the town is still burning?

 

[SteveHants]

And when law enforcement abjectly fail to do their job? As they did in the BLM riots, and as they continually do in rural UK?

Vote in governments that don't continually cut finding to the police and won't invest in poor communities?

Nobody riots for a laugh, do they?

 

[unlacedgecko]

Vote in governments that don't continually cut finding to the police and won't invest in poor communities?

Nobody riots for a laugh, do they?

Most rioters are there for the laugh, the opportunity to loot free stuff and cause general chaos. Rioting is a national sport in Northern Ireland.

Your experience of riots is clearly very different to mine.

”when the seconds count, the police are only minutes away”

 

[SteveHants]

Now we're getting somewhere, it's the job of law enforcement, nothing to do with me... so what do you do when the law enforcement isn't dealing with it? and the town is still burning?

What would you do?

You (as far as I'm aware) have no idea how to deal with that situation - what use do you think you could be? Don't forget people have been killed here - do you think you have some sort of moral authority to take lives?

 

[Exfarmer]

Now we're getting somewhere, it's the job of law enforcement, nothing to do with me... so what do you do when the law enforcement isn't dealing with it? and the town is still burning?

But the Black lives movement was whipped up by killing black people, so you think killing more is going to make matters better?

 

[SteveHants]

Most rioters are there for the laugh, the opportunity to loot free stuff and cause general chaos. Rioting is a national sport in Northern Ireland.

Your experience of riots is clearly very different to mine.

”when the seconds count, the police are only minutes away”

But Northern Ireland has lots of lovely armed vigilante groups to sort out that problem - surely you are 100% behind them?

 

[Guleesh]

What would you do?

You (as far as I'm aware) have no idea how to deal with that situation - what use do you think you could be? Don't forget people have been killed here - do you think you have some sort of moral authority to take lives?

Have you seen the trial? you don't seem to be talking about the same incident tbh. If people were intent on destroying me then I would attempt to destroy them first.

 

[Guleesh]

But the Black lives movement was whipped up by killing black people, so you think killing more is going to make matters better?

3 white guys got shot? why are you debating an event you seem to know nothing about?

 

[SteveHants]

Have you seen the trial? you don't seem to be talking about the same incident tbh. If people were intent on destroying me then I would attempt to destroy them first.

With *checks notes* a skateboard?

I can understand why he reacted like he did, he was a scared child with a semi-automatic rifle.

He shouldn't have been there in the first place.

 

[SteveHants]

3 white guys got shot? why are you debating an event you seem to know nothing about?

No, he's talking about the catalyst.
Much like Rodney King.

 

[Guleesh]

With *checks notes* a skateboard?

I can understand why he reacted like he did, he was a scared child with a semi-automatic rifle.

He shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Go watch the trial

 

[unlacedgecko]

What would you do?

You (as far as I'm aware) have no idea how to deal with that situation - what use do you think you could be? Don't forget people have been killed here - do you think you have some sort of moral authority to take lives?

You don’t think people have been put out of business and made bankrupt by these riots?

I use my quad every day for work. It’s kept under lock and key. It’s got an immobiliser and a tracker. I’ve taken every reasonable step I can to prevent its theft. Should it be stolen, at best I will be severely out of pocket due to cost to replace and increased premiums. The thief will be taking food out of the mouth of my son.

Were it legal, I would not hesitate to put a bullet into someone I found stealing my quad, or my dogs, or any other piece of my property.

Say the thief is on the quad and riding away. If it were legal, I’d shoot them in the back to recover my property. Its mine, I’ve worked damn hard for it and they have no moral authority to take it. If they value their life less than my quad, that’s on them.

Unfortunately we don’t live in such a society. Instead the nanny state protects the scum and penalises the hard working law abiding citizen. So I secure things as best I can I hope they target someone else. It’s pathetic and disgusting and morally bankrupt.

 

[Cheesehead]

US castle laws and stand your ground laws mean criminals have a much harder time.

They also have in a lot of States (but not Wisconsin) a "Duty to Retreat" where by you have to show you could not retreat to safety safely leaving you unable to claim self defence if say you had a safe room which you could retreat into where if you actively went after them you couldn't claim self defense along with a clause that you can not actively provoke an attack and then claim self defence. Law ironically is seldom black and white

 

[SteveHants]

Go watch the trial

Why?

You seem to have missed the point - it doesn't matter to me what the technical ins and outs of the US legal system are.

I'm not condemning him - he's just a kid.

What I am saying is that armed vigilantes have been shown throughout the 20th century never to do any good.