Lanark texel sales, today.

Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
In my opinion... and that is all it is...

The tup in question is actually pretty good. From what I could see in the video and odd picture;
He looks to stand and walk well with good locomotion
He looks to have a good body with shape
He has a nice head - yes it's large, but it isn't huge like others

What let's him down, for me, is the very short neck and very wide front shoulders.

If the neck was a bit longer and the shoulders a bit narrower then I would put my neck on the block to say he is almost the perfect Texel. Factor in his figures and I can see why he was highly wanted...
 

Ysgythan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ammanford
In my opinion... and that is all it is...

The tup in question is actually pretty good. From what I could see in the video and odd picture;
He looks to stand and walk well with good locomotion
He looks to have a good body with shape
He has a nice head - yes it's large, but it isn't huge like others

What let's him down, for me, is the very short neck and very wide front shoulders.

If the neck was a bit longer and the shoulders a bit narrower then I would put my neck on the block to say he is almost the perfect Texel. Factor in his figures and I can see why he was highly wanted...

It was not a vintage year. There was a serious lack of competition.
 

Ysgythan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ammanford
really ? was enough there , whats lacking these days ? or people cutting the cake bills with covid and lack of ring sales , or genuine lack of genetic progress ?
A lot of flocks that would normally be bankers were not up to it. There was a preponderance of faults. The big boys interest was concentrated in very few lambs, most from the same guy, who’s been trading with them for a few years, this concentrating the bloodlines. That’s when records are broken.
 

irish dom

Member
growth, shape, character, all you’d want in a crossing tup. I put pedigree stock tups on mules and have done for years. A good stock tup makes good crossbreds. I’ll concede the issue you can get with very growthy tups is a lack of finish at 42kg, but those are the “shearling makers” that this one definitely isn’t.
I buy my rams on figures, mouth feet and basic physical correctness but I must put character into it now to run with the big boys. In Ireland we have one of the best performance recording systems now in the world but most of my fellow farmers are still hung up on looks and overfed lumps of shite that are reared by small hobby breeders who have no clue about commercial farming as it doesn't apply to them. The sooner the school teachers and policemen are left sitting with their over priced short lived poor genetic rubbish the better. Character never paid the bills. The 350k was a set up like all the rest and anyone who believes different is seriously deluded. It happens at every big sale. It's a pyramid scheme.
 
I buy my rams on figures, mouth feet and basic physical correctness but I must put character into it now to run with the big boys. In Ireland we have one of the best performance recording systems now in the world but most of my fellow farmers are still hung up on looks and overfed lumps of shite that are reared by small hobby breeders who have no clue about commercial farming as it doesn't apply to them. The sooner the school teachers and policemen are left sitting with their over priced short lived poor genetic rubbish the better. Character never paid the bills. The 350k was a set up like all the rest and anyone who believes different is seriously deluded. It happens at every big sale. It's a pyramid scheme.
Well summed up!

Out of interest, what makes your recording scheme one if the best in the world?
 

Ysgythan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ammanford
I buy my rams on figures, mouth feet and basic physical correctness but I must put character into it now to run with the big boys. In Ireland we have one of the best performance recording systems now in the world but most of my fellow farmers are still hung up on looks and overfed lumps of shite that are reared by small hobby breeders who have no clue about commercial farming as it doesn't apply to them. The sooner the school teachers and policemen are left sitting with their over priced short lived poor genetic rubbish the better. Character never paid the bills. The 350k was a set up like all the rest and anyone who believes different is seriously deluded. It happens at every big sale. It's a pyramid scheme.

fair play, I wish I was an enlightened. This man has ALL the answers. Let’s make him President.

I call @unlacedgecko tups fannies and get piled on and called a c u nt yet you can slag off me and a major proportion of the industry with impunity? That’s fine.

your post is actually rubbish by the way. If your world beating Stars system was that hot it wouldn’t need the pushing it gets by the state.

if you think character never paid the bills you don’t understand actual character and what it’s about. 350k is about icing on a cake. There are people who go for all icing and miss the cake out. It’s their money. If you don’t want icing, that’s your money too. But I’ll be f**ked before I buy a dry cake made of maths.

The problem with the pyramid scheme is it’s longevity. Enough people are getting enough out of it to keep it going. Bakewell died in 1795. Another two centuries and you’re right it may all fall apart. However if you look at the Innovis set up and how Bakewell operated there are some interesting parallels.

anyway, I’m off to shoot my overfed lumps of sh!t.
 

irish dom

Member
Well summed up!

Out of interest, what makes your recording scheme one if the best in the world?
It is one of the most advanced using genomic across breed evaluations and it is delivering real economic progress amongst its adopters. This is the future. Not buying a ram cos his great grand síre made a silly amount of money in order to massage someone's ego or because he had been fed to the point of internal damage, infertility and early death. It still surprises me why would an April lambing outdoor lambing low input flock would buy a December born pumped to the gills lamb that has never relied on forage for its existence then be surprised when he either dies or turns into a toast rack and tips nothing. I have this conversation with the same men every year at scanning on how they are never buying at the premier sale again and these overfed lambs are a waste of time. Then you see their name in the paper in August having bought another one of them. Some people will never and don't want to change but for the rest of us trying to make sheep pay performance recorded rams is the way to go.
 

irish dom

Member
fair play, I wish I was an enlightened. This man has ALL the answers. Let’s make him President.

I call @unlacedgecko tups fannies and get piled on and called a c u nt yet you can slag off me and a major proportion of the industry with impunity? That’s fine.

your post is actually rubbish by the way. If your world beating Stars system was that hot it wouldn’t need the pushing it gets by the state.

if you think character never paid the bills you don’t understand actual character and what it’s about. 350k is about icing on a cake. There are people who go for all icing and miss the cake out. It’s their money. If you don’t want icing, that’s your money too. But I’ll be fudgeed before I buy a dry cake made of maths.

The problem with the pyramid scheme is it’s longevity. Enough people are getting enough out of it to keep it going. Bakewell died in 1795. Another two centuries and you’re right it may all fall apart. However if you look at the Innovis set up and how Bakewell operated there are some interesting parallels.

anyway, I’m off to shoot my overfed lumps of sh!t.
God you must have a great insight into it to call it rubbish. The reason why the state is pushing it is because of the ingrained attitude that farmers are suspicious of the figures. This is more down to culture and age profile of our industry. Why not push it?
Surely the commercial farmer earning a living producing a product creating jobs in the processing marketing haulage sectors is a hell of alot more important than someone selling a dream wrapped in purl dip?
Apologies if I offended you was not my intention. There are plenty of good solid breeders out there. I buy off them.
 

cowboysupper

Member
Mixed Farmer
It is one of the most advanced using genomic across breed evaluations and it is delivering real economic progress amongst its adopters. This is the future. Not buying a ram cos his great grand síre made a silly amount of money in order to massage someone's ego or because he had been fed to the point of internal damage, infertility and early death. It still surprises me why would an April lambing outdoor lambing low input flock would buy a December born pumped to the gills lamb that has never relied on forage for its existence then be surprised when he either dies or turns into a toast rack and tips nothing. I have this conversation with the same men every year at scanning on how they are never buying at the premier sale again and these overfed lambs are a waste of time. Then you see their name in the paper in August having bought another one of them. Some people will never and don't want to change but for the rest of us trying to make sheep pay performance recorded rams is the way to go.

I do quite like the simplicity of the Irish EBVs. I think it appeals to a broader base of farmers because of its simplicity. What are the accuracy levels like though? Are they still not on the low side given it being still a relatively new scheme?
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
It is one of the most advanced using genomic across breed evaluations and it is delivering real economic progress amongst its adopters. This is the future. Not buying a ram cos his great grand síre made a silly amount of money in order to massage someone's ego or because he had been fed to the point of internal damage, infertility and early death. It still surprises me why would an April lambing outdoor lambing low input flock would buy a December born pumped to the gills lamb that has never relied on forage for its existence then be surprised when he either dies or turns into a toast rack and tips nothing. I have this conversation with the same men every year at scanning on how they are never buying at the premier sale again and these overfed lambs are a waste of time. Then you see their name in the paper in August having bought another one of them. Some people will never and don't want to change but for the rest of us trying to make sheep pay performance recorded rams is the way to go.

All the major recording schemes that I know of are delivering real economic progress to their adopters (less so to those that just happen to be members thinking it’s a marketing tool). Tbh I find the Irish star system quite simplistic and a very blunt tool, but it’s a start and I guess it makes things simple to pick out a better performing tup.
The UK system provides many times more information, especially now CT data and RamCompare data has been included in the analysis. However, because it provides so much data, producing so many trait ebvs, it is a less clear tool to use for those not understanding it, or not necessarily wanting to.

There is no reason why you can’t have ‘character’ too IMO, and I would suggest breeding for both is quite important. When I select my replacement females I do so purely on confirmation and ‘character’. If one doesn’t appeal to me, then it gets hung up, regardless of figures. I do look afterwards, and have killed the highest index female in the breed several times. I do look VERY closely at trait ebvs in stock rams though, alongside appearance.

To those naysayers that suggest you can’t have character in high performance sheep, and that all recorded sheep are cr*p, I would point out that the record price Beltex (65,000gns) was top 10% index, the record price Texel is top 1% and the record price Charollais (25,000gns) is top 1%. I dare say there published figures weren’t given much, if any, consideration by their buyers, but they did push on for sheep that had performed. There may just have been a connection....
 
Last edited:

Tex

Member
really ? was enough there , whats lacking these days ? or people cutting the cake bills with covid and lack of ring sales , or genuine lack of genetic progress ?
You'll not feed a bad one into a good one, I'm not sure how you think meal will make a difference if a lamb is faulty?

Thought picking out top end lambs was difficult, last year had a better show of sheep.
 

irish dom

Member
All the major recording schemes that I know of are delivering real economic progress to their adopters (less so to those that just happen to be members thinking it’s a marketing tool). Tbh I find the Irish start system quite simplistic and a very blunt tool, but it’s a start and I guess it makes things simple to pick out a better performing tup.
The UK system provides many times more information, especially now CT data and RamCompare data has been included in the analysis. However, because it provides so much data, producing so many trait ebvs, it is a less clear tool to use for those not understanding it, or not necessarily wanting to.

There is no reason why you can’t have ‘character’ too IMO, and I would suggest breeding for both is quite important. When I select my replacement females I do so purely on confirmation and ‘character’. If one doesn’t appeal to me, then it gets hung up, regardless of figures. I do look afterwards, and have killed the highest index female in the breed several times. I do look VERY closely at trait ebvs in stock rams though, alongside appearance.

To those naysayers that suggest you can’t have character in high performance sheep, and that all recorded sheep are cr*p, I would point out that the record price Beltex (65,000gns) was top 10% index, the record price Texel is top 1% and the record price Charollais (25,000gns) is top 1%. I dare say there published figures weren’t given much, if any, consideration by their buyers, but they did push on for sheep that had performed. There may just have been a connection....
I agree with you that you have like the look of the sheep you are breeding but figures are and must become more important if progress is to be made. In my view the simplicity of the star system is its strength. Most guys don't want to spend hours sifting through figures
 

Tex

Member
It is one of the most advanced using genomic across breed evaluations and it is delivering real economic progress amongst its adopters. This is the future. Not buying a ram cos his great grand síre made a silly amount of money in order to massage someone's ego or because he had been fed to the point of internal damage, infertility and early death. It still surprises me why would an April lambing outdoor lambing low input flock would buy a December born pumped to the gills lamb that has never relied on forage for its existence then be surprised when he either dies or turns into a toast rack and tips nothing. I have this conversation with the same men every year at scanning on how they are never buying at the premier sale again and these overfed lambs are a waste of time. Then you see their name in the paper in August having bought another one of them. Some people will never and don't want to change but for the rest of us trying to make sheep pay performance recorded rams is the way to go.
I've seen plenty of sheep in the top 1% that can only be described as screws, in fact the load of rubbish that often makes it to Blessington, wouldn't get a bid at the UK national sales, which is why a lot of ROI breeders venture across the water to buy breeding stock.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 75 43.6%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 61 35.5%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 27 15.7%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 3 1.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,283
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top