Land Access Rights

My parents have lived in their property for over 40 years, in between their drive way and next door there is an access track to the grass field behind their property. When I was growing up the access was always the right of way into the field for the farmers cows. At one point the field was split into two, the cows field and the cricket pitch. Over the years the cricket pitch became part of the over all field which means there are two access gates to the field.

About 30 years ago their neighbour started to rent a section of the land behind the properties from the farmer. At this point they claimed the access as their own and started to use and maintain the access. Over time there was a dispute between the farmer and the neighbour which resulted in court action to remove the tenant from the land. However, the individual continued to claim the access track as their own and has done for about 20 years now. They fenced and gated off the area even thou it was the access to the field, but as this was not the only access this meant that the field could still be used.

About 5 years ago the neighbour moved out of the property next door, leaving the track filled with rubbish, a caravan and an old car and has not maintained it at all. The farmer removed some of the junk but the old neighbour returned claiming the land was still his and his property should not have been removed. I am not sure what the outcome of this was but the fencing and gates are still in place.

It's now come around that we have the opportunity to rent the field behind the property from the original farmer but we would need to use the track as our access to the field as the field has been split into two with the other access being used for the other side of the field.

What we are now trying to determine is whether the old neighbour had the right to claim the access as his own? The land has not been registered with the land registry but reading some details that after a period of time you can claim the land as your own then this could be true. However, if you do claim it as your own should you complete the claim by registering the property with the Land Registry. If you don't do this is there anyway that someone else can then claim the land back from you. Also, if he is now not maintaining the land and its all over grown could we take down the fencing and gate and turn it back into an access track?

There was a court order for the neighbour to be removed from the property but I am not sure whether this would have included the access track as well. As the track was access for the cow field for many years before all this does this make a difference?

 

[7610 super q]

This might get more notice if posted in the tenancy thread further up.....

Who actually owns the track ?

 

[Nearly]

It's the landlord's problem not yours.

Go for a wander through this entrance, take a video and deposit it with your solicitor. The video is proof that the man trying to claim ownership has not had excusive occupancy of the track.

The Land Registry will know if man is already trying to claim ownership of the access.

Man needs to prove no one else has used this for 15 years and then no one to dispute it for 8 (?) more years.
Or he could just be an awkward cock.

Get signed statements from the parties on the landlord's side before they drop off the perch as it sounds like it's old news.

 

[SARMOO]

he could just be an awkward cock.

This is very true

 

[SARMOO]

Who actually owns the track ?

We are not sure, we thought the farmer but as Nearly mentioned above, the person claiming the access is very awkward and hard to deal with, it seems to be impossible to find out who actually owns the land. If the person claiming the land was easier to deal with and allowed us to use it then it would not be a issue but going on past encounters with him its very unlikely that he would allow that.

 

[Gerbert]

Are you a masochist? Unless it is vital to you having the field, don't do it. Even when you get the right to use the access it will still be a pain in the but.

 

[Kentishfarmer]

Assuming, based on the information you have given, the farmer probably actually owns the track but has never registered it with the land registry. The next legal document would be the old school land certificates or even a deed of sale which should include a map and areas which SHOULD be the proof required for him to officially register it.
From what I can tell your awkward neighbour doesn't really have much of a case, he may well have a right of way down the track if he has used it for 20years continuously and not as terms of a rent, but he realistically won't be able to prove ownership.
Any land agent worth their salt should be able to sort it out pretty easily and it is in the farmers best interests to do so.
Were I the farmer, once I've established a good case for owner ship I would probably just clear all the neighbours sh** off the track, take down his gates and start using it. I suspect your neighbour is just banking on being awkward enough for no one to bother dealing with him and will back down once someone stands up to him

 

[SARMOO]

Are you a masochist? Unless it is vital to you having the field, don't do it. Even when you get the right to use the access it will still be a pain in the but.

I think this is very true, I am thinking to try an alternative solution, its not so much the fact that he has claimed it as his, that would not be a problem if he was actually a reasonable person and looked after the land and allowed people access but this is very unlikely. I think it would be best that we just leave as is and look for something else.

 

[SARMOO]

Assuming, based on the information you have given, the farmer probably actually owns the track but has never registered it with the land registry. The next legal document would be the old school land certificates or even a deed of sale which should include a map and areas which SHOULD be the proof required for him to officially register it.
From what I can tell your awkward neighbour doesn't really have much of a case, he may well have a right of way down the track if he has used it for 20years continuously and not as terms of a rent, but he realistically won't be able to prove ownership.
Any land agent worth their salt should be able to sort it out pretty easily and it is in the farmers best interests to do so.
Were I the farmer, once I've established a good case for owner ship I would probably just clear all the neighbours sh** off the track, take down his gates and start using it. I suspect your neighbour is just banking on being awkward enough for no one to bother dealing with him and will back down once someone stands up to him

This is actually what has happened, the awkward neighbour has just got away with this as no one will stand up to him, he's the sort to call the police at every opportunity and just generally be difficult at every possible opportunity. It sounds like it would be best for us to just leave well alone and let the farmer deal with it.

 

[SARMOO]

Just looking at the Land Registry plan it states the following:

A: Property Register continued 6 (15.05.2008) The registered proprietor claims that the land in this title has the benefit of a right of way at all times and for all purposes over the roadway tinted brown on the title plan. The right claimed is not included in this registration. The claim is supported by statutory declaration(s) dated 14 March 2008. NOTE: Copy statutory declaration(s) filed.

The access is tinted brown on the plan which is the bit the neighbour has gated restricting access.

Would this mean that we do actually have access rights? any thoughts? If so, what would be your next steps - should we get anything confirming this to cover our backs should the difficult neighbour disagree.

 

[Kentishfarmer]

Just looking at the Land Registry plan it states the following:

A: Property Register continued 6 (15.05.2008) The registered proprietor claims that the land in this title has the benefit of a right of way at all times and for all purposes over the roadway tinted brown on the title plan. The right claimed is not included in this registration. The claim is supported by statutory declaration(s) dated 14 March 2008. NOTE: Copy statutory declaration(s) filed.

The access is tinted brown on the plan which is the bit the neighbour has gated restricting access.

Would this mean that we do actually have access rights? any thoughts? If so, what would be your next steps - should we get anything confirming this to cover our backs should the difficult neighbour disagree.

The fact that it is actually registered with the land registry with the ROW is good. Without seeing the statutory declaration you couldn't be 100% sure you could prove this right in court (knowing all the facts prevents it from getting this far). If your familiar with the property search tool on the land registry you can find out if the access roadway is actually registered to someone or not.
If it isn't (making some assumptions) then there is basically nothing your neighbour can do to stop access to the field (unless he has unregistered pre land registry documentation proving his ownership, which I doubt). This is as previously stated by Nearly he would need to prove 15 years exclusive use of the track by him, to claim the land if no one owns it. Judging by your initial post he could not do this.

Really the farmer/ his land agent ought to outline this right of access in a letter to the neighbour including the title deed & any evidence. I'd do that by recorded delivery and requesting he remove his locks/blockages by a certain date. If he doesn't/doesnt repsond then farmer can go ahead and clear it and there isn't really anything the neighbour can reasonably do about it because he is obstructing a right of access & potentially dumping/fly tipping if he doesn't own the land. If he is super awkward/money to burn he could try contest the right of access in court but sounds like that would be a massive waste of time & money for him.