Land drainage

[Ant0912]

Hi , I posted in here last December -about land drainage & possibility the council may have culverted an old ditch they ran to

Well National Highways inspected the culvert and it’s full of mud. Chambers & pipes.
they thought it was running from the road to a farmers ditch , the land is no longer farmed as they are building a house on the land which hasn’t started yet.
Anyway my neighbour told me the ditch in question runs out the field , and I’ve now found out this ditch passes the side of my land.

Now my 1/2 acre is flooded like a swamp.

Laying stone on our parking area - We accidentally excavated right on top of a land drainage tile. It has t broken it - just literally uncovered it. It was gushing clean water .

Light bulb moment - we quickly dug a big pit and this land drain is currently down to a trickle as it put some clay on top , and filling the hole up which I am having to pump down a combined sewer.

The land drains head straight for the watercourse - problem is the farmers field is overgrown and a swamp.

looks like it hasn’t been cleaned in 20/30 years - I am certain our land drains run into this ditch & prob sitting under 5 feet of mud and earth .

I didn’t want to pump the water through into an already flooded area , and be blamed for the current mess. As that’s not natural flow is it ? Even though it’s coming out the blocked land drain that should be flowing into his ditch.

I am going to contact the farmer & ask him to clear the ditch .

if he refuses what are the recourse I can take? I do not want to involve solicitors - does he have to clear it under the land drainage act ? And my land drains heading into that watercourse if been there since 1840s is that precedent?

he only recently 2000s bought the land for a house development and fenced the rest of the field off which is grazed by sheep.
So this area has become a wilderness and a swamp.
Next door says the ditch is culverted down side of his fence as in 1996 it was 6ft deep.

My thoughts are over the years the rain washes earth in - bramble and hedge roots grow and push a ditch upwards eventually jamming my clay drains full of mud.

as it passes my hedge - that’s the only part not culverted. Someone told me it may be my ditch ? As hedge on a bank and ditch below , and I’m responsible for he section as it passes my boundary.

my land registry shows a red boundary line and the ditch is the other side - plus his planning permission included him installing a headwall and a attenuation tank draining into the watercourse .

Hope someone can help me , I was hoping to possibly get the land drains jetted out but understand I need to sort the outfall out first.

Thanks in advance

 

[Flatland guy]

my land registry shows a red boundary line and the ditch is the other side - plus his planning permission included him installing a headwall and a attenuation tank draining into the watercourse .

Have you checked the land registry records for the field etc. I would imagine they do not include the dyke on the field either nowadays unless have access to deeds from years ago when you purchase they exclude boundary dykes, so in effect no one can claim ownership of the dyke and it is creating massive issues.

 

[Ant0912]

Have you checked the land registry records for the field etc. I would imagine they do not include the dyke on the field either nowadays unless have access to deeds from years ago when you purchase they exclude boundary dykes, so in effect no one can claim ownership of the dyke and it is creating massive issues.

So in the 1800s the same family owned everything , the houses that were built were split a long his kids in the 1880s and stayed in same ownership till recent as 2000.

Our land registry doesn’t even mention any covenants or restrictions etc .
That’s just it - and the field & with the watercourse (it’s a non moving swamp)

I checked with land register & same as our title - just says title absolute no records of ditches unless farmer was handed them with paperwork when purchased field.

he can’t have it both ways surely , ion one hand say it’s your ditch but then use the ditch for outfall from the house he is building.

I’ve noticed some of my tree in the field , so was going to ask him if he can clear the ditch as my land drainage is backed up and blown a tile which I’m having to pump away.- but then say there’s part of our tree in there I’ll shift that as previous owner failed to retrieve it . Hoping I come across as not just shouting about a ditch - but demonstrate the previous owner didn’t play their part either.

we spent last 16 months combating drains around the house clogged with earth roots in the clay joints the lot, then when it rained the highway flooded down the driveway and we got a moat sound the house which made it damp.

we’ve installed aco drain channels & a sump pump at the side where the rain rushes down the slope into the house then puddles into a lake because for some reason the ground slopes towards the cottage .

so this year we was planning on getting the land back to a field from a forest and jungle. .
Now we realise she prob suffered the same flooded land due to the land drains not flowing and let it go wild.

I was hoping to see the water on the land recede with the pump working but as it’s clay I suspect it will take time to drain - plus I could open the land drain tile up and let more into the hole I dug but was unsure how much water would flow - half of our land was sold to next door in 1989 so I presume the land drains also extend under the hedge and into theirs too. As in 1800s was one field on the OS Map.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Is there anyway I can get water to rise up to a ditch without pumping to
If I used a sealed pipe for the last quarter of the land drain would it then rise up through a 90 bend at the end into the ditch above or just seep back into the lower ground
No I haven't been drinking

 

[Welderloon]

Look up old aerial photographs of the area for a clue to ditches/dykes, anything 1970's is still in an era when maintenance of waterways was done correctly by real men with proper mustaches, sideburns & donkey jackets & long before climate change became an industry that required its flames being fanned by encouraging flooding & the general neglect of the countryside we are currently experiencing.

 

[Case290]

Sounds like everybody’s probably. all you can hope for is the environment agency or natural England aren’t looking after it as it will never get done then. The local council drainage chap here said you can clear ditches any time of the yr but I’m not sure if that still applies if your in an environmental scheme.

 

[Ant0912]

I’ve done Google Earth and as the tree canopies shade the area can’t zoom in the resolution is awful, plus the stretch of ditch is only around 25-35 metres then it’s piped.

thing I have been thinking is in 1840 when the houses were built by the same family they more than likely owed the field the ditch is in, would be no permissions or easements on land registry or deeds.
Tried local council archives and they searched for me - hit & miss , and doesn’t cover this area. Then tell me private land did their own drainage & they either would have owned the ditch or had permission to drain to it . Fact they are ancient land drains existing I’m hoping the farmer understand that overgrown ditch has backed my pipes up.

the depth they are where I discovered the run of tiles - there’s no way they are flowing onto that overgrown area , I’d say they prob 2ft under the crap that’s growing .

I'm thinking write a short note giving my contact details rather than rocking up to their farm unannounced.

 

[Ant0912]

Is there anyway I can get water to rise up to a ditch without pumping to
If I used a sealed pipe for the last quarter of the land drain would it then rise up through a 90 bend at the end into the ditch above or just seep back into the lower ground
No I haven't been drinking

I don’t know about without a pump.
We’ve had loads of water problems here - I tried drain channels and a gulley pot thinking gravity would push it the 3-4 inches higjer but the channels just filled and spilled out.

could try a tank like an IBC or even build a manhole type tank with a sump pump that will push the water up. Without power local that can be an issue.

 

[Ant0912]

Sounds like everybody’s probably. all you can hope for is the environment agency or natural England aren’t looking after it as it will never get done then. The local council drainage chap here said you can clear ditches any time of the yr but I’m not sure if that still applies if your in an environmental scheme.

The farmer bought the big field and fenced off part , applied for planning in 2014 & got it . The field has gone to scrub since & mounds of earth where the foundations were poured have grown grass and reeds over them. The national highways inspector thought it was a pond. I had to tell him it was actually a concrete foundation that’s full of water .

so this particular ditch is only 25-35 metres in total before it enters a culvert which I couldn't see - I think there’s that much accumulation it’s blocked the culvert and nature has taken over.
On his house plans - he is putting an outflow into the existing watercourse with a concrete headwall - that told me the ditch should be deeper than the flat area that’s a swamp.

makes sense that our land drains run to that as the tiles go corner to corner and I imagine the smaller ones are the herringbone laterals off the main. The water is running from
The highest part of my land slopes to that direction .

the woman we bought off has dug two huge ponds as the bottom corner of the field was wet . On second viewing she said pond was low as the farmers prob done something downstream. Which I didn’t take much notice of at the time, but this pond is against the hedge that leads to the start of the watercourse .

I’ve asked flood officer for any watercourse plans they may have but got no reply so far .

 

[melted welly]

I don’t know about without a pump.
We’ve had loads of water problems here - I tried drain channels and a gulley pot thinking gravity would push it the 3-4 inches higjer but the channels just filled and spilled out.

could try a tank like an IBC or even build a manhole type tank with a sump pump that will push the water up. Without power local that can be an issue.

If you’re in a relatively flat area, Hire a laser and check the levels, you may get a surprise as where you get the water to go.