Leaving job without notice

[thesilentone]

But just how do you calculate "profit" on a farm?

Does the business owner take a wage? This could be anything between £15k-£50k

Business might not make a trading profit, but if stock valuation rises by £100/head that could be a £50k paper profit

What if the business buys a new tractor just before the end of the year to reduce an expected tax bill.

What about the business owner's return on investment?

There are numerous ways a profitable business can manipulate a profit figure up or down by £100k

Company accounts are a year in arrears, not current and buying a new tractor does not kill profit, it is a means of taking advantage of it's allowances, and is based on good business management, not impulsive buying. Stock/asset valuation has nothing to do with operational profit. Always remember there is vanity and sanity. Vanity is high asset values and high turnover. Sanity is profit..........

Profit is profit, simple as that, no profit, no profit sharing, lot's of profit, lot's of profit sharing.

Of course it is expected the owners take an income, however that is before the nett profit, not after, but, as they also have the advantage of paying themselves a dividend, then it is unreasonable to also take from the workers profit sharing pot.

Accountants can be creative when trying to hide profits, however the tax/vat man is not stupid and see's so many accounts, anyone who is being over-creative is very quickly picked out and the dreaded inspection begins.

The last thing anyone wants.

 

[betweenthelines]

Just pointing out that a devious farmer could offer the herdsman a bonus of 10% of profit but take a £50k cut as his salary before profit is calculated, pay his wife a £10k salary etc. etc.

Any "profit share" scheme would be better based on a straight percentage of milk sales/ hygiene payments/calves alive at ten days etc.etc. Others would get a bonus for each lamb/tonne of grain etc. sold


P & L used to calculate figures for a profit share scheme can be totally different to figures presented for tax purposes. And no one will know as the tax records are private.


I've worked for national companies that pay a profit share bonus. The sales Manager cocks up a major tender and no one gets a bonus.

 

[thesilentone]

Just pointing out that a devious farmer could offer the herdsman a bonus of 10% of profit but take a £50k cut as his salary before profit is calculated, pay his wife a £10k salary etc. etc.

Any "profit share" scheme would be better based on a straight percentage of milk sales/ hygiene payments/calves alive at ten days etc.etc. Others would get a bonus for each lamb/tonne of grain etc. sold


P & L used to calculate figures for a profit share scheme can be totally different to figures presented for tax purposes. And no one will know as the tax records are private.


I've worked for national companies that pay a profit share bonus. The sales Manager cocks up a major tender and no one gets a bonus.

I'm sorry but your post makes no sense.

A profit sharing scheme can only be of any good if there is profit to share, it is an incentive to encourage the team to contribute to the profitability of the business, could I suggest if you are a ' devious farmer ' you would not operate a profit sharing scheme.

If a farmer takes a "£50k cut as his salary before profit is calculated, pay his wife £10k salary etc, etc " he/she is perfectly entitled to do so, it is her/his business, and they take the risk, so they deserve the reward.

Being task specific is a good idea, unless you have multiple employee's. However it does not reward loyalty.

"P & L used to calculate figures for a profit share scheme can be totally different to figures presented for tax purposes. And no one will know as the tax records are private." As the employers tax benefits have all but disappeared for profit sharing schemes, I'm unsure your point here. I go back to my first point if you want to dodge, dive and weave, then you clearly you do no see or understand the benefits of the scheme, so the best solution is. Don't have one !

Being part of a team, means having a team attitude.

So, the sales manager who "cocked up", could be the same sales manager who has contributed most to the scheme through his/her efforts in the past and future.

 

[ollie989898]

Say your employee is worth a £2k bonus (the sweet spot for divi). Give alphabet shares and do it as divi and they have no tax, NI, so they get £2k. Add it to PAYE and they get £1189, assuming they’re in the upper tax bracket.

If the farming company is being run as a Ltd Co, then the paperwork is minimal. If the bonus is higher then there are some tax liabilities with divi but never more than PAYE. Alphabet shares can have no rights or obligations to shareholders, be taken away by directors etc. so no risk to the company.

Clearly not worth forming a company structure just for that, but it’s an option if you’re there already.

There will be a large percentage of farms ran as limited companies for other reasons of which I am sure you are aware.

 

[casemx 270]

In my experience it doesn't matter how much you pay or what bonus you give being treated right not being treated like a slave or in my case being told off like a kid everytime you make a mistake (I m only human) that's what gets the best out of employees .I ve not read every post but I m in a similar situation myself and after 20 years of working for a top employer I was made redundant now I m trying to find a decent job but it would seem that the last 20 years count for nothing and some employers expect blood for a below average wage .I work to live not live to work .It's getting to the stage where I beginning to think that 38 years of experience and all that go with being a reliable and trustworthy worker perhaps 35 hours in a factory is the way forward.Yes I know I m not perfect and don't claim to be but I believe 20 years with one well known local employer says a lot .

 

[BELOWAVERAGE]

In my experience it doesn't matter how much you pay or what bonus you give being treated right not being treated like a slave or in my case being told off like a kid everytime you make a mistake (I m only human) that's what gets the best out of employees .I ve not read every post but I m in a similar situation myself and after 20 years of working for a top employer I was made redundant now I m trying to find a decent job but it would seem that the last 20 years count for nothing and some employers expect blood for a below average wage .I work to live not live to work .It's getting to the stage where I beginning to think that 38 years of experience and all that go with being a reliable and trustworthy worker perhaps 35 hours in a factory is the way forward.Yes I know I m not perfect and don't claim to be but I believe 20 years with one well known local employer says a lot .

I'd count yourself lucky you've had one decent employer, just don't hold your breath expecting to find another in farming.

 

[B'o'B]

I'd count yourself lucky you've had one decent employer, just don't hold your breath expecting to find another in farming.

The trouble with trying to get a job with good employers in farming is that they tend to have a very low turnover of staff, which means they aren't looking to employ new people very often.

 

[kiwi pom]

In my experience it doesn't matter how much you pay or what bonus you give being treated right not being treated like a slave or in my case being told off like a kid everytime you make a mistake (I m only human) that's what gets the best out of employees .I ve not read every post but I m in a similar situation myself and after 20 years of working for a top employer I was made redundant now I m trying to find a decent job but it would seem that the last 20 years count for nothing and some employers expect blood for a below average wage .I work to live not live to work .It's getting to the stage where I beginning to think that 38 years of experience and all that go with being a reliable and trustworthy worker perhaps 35 hours in a factory is the way forward.Yes I know I m not perfect and don't claim to be but I believe 20 years with one well known local employer says a lot .

Spoke to someone from the UK about this just yesterday, fed up where they are, totally under appreciated, blamed for everything despite them having no control over many things and under paid for their experience.
Move on was my answer, to what was the reply. There simply wasn't anything out there to go to. He's mid forties been a farm worker all his life and was made redundant from a job he really liked. before spending 10+ years in his current job. What to do?
His 18 year old daughter makes 3 quid an hour less than him working in Costa Coffee. He doesn't even get an overtime rate.

 

[betweenthelines]

The trouble with trying to get a job with good employers in farming is that they tend to have a very low turnover of staff, which means they aren't looking to employ new people very often.

And the employers with a high staff turnover never seem to work out why.

 

[ollie989898]

Spoke to someone from the UK about this just yesterday, fed up where they are, totally under appreciated, blamed for everything despite them having no control over many things and under paid for their experience.
Move on was my answer, to what was the reply. There simply wasn't anything out there to go to. He's mid forties been a farm worker all his life and was made redundant from a job he really liked. before spending 10+ years in his current job. What to do?
His 18 year old daughter makes 3 quid an hour less than him working in Costa Coffee. He doesn't even get an overtime rate.

The vast majority of the people on this forum, more or less are fully functional, with 2 arms 2 legs and a pair of eyes that all work more ofrless. I'd hazard a guess that any of us, even myself -a complete noodle arm at the best of times- can get out of bed at 6am on the dot and do a 70 hour week if required.

Now the above factors mean you are very valuable indeed and could earn any amount of money anywhere if you so choose. I'm currently fishing for something else to do, who knows where it will end up. There are good employers out there, as others have said they just don't come up often.

 

[kiwi pom]

The vast majority of the people on this forum, more or less are fully functional, with 2 arms 2 legs and a pair of eyes that all work more ofrless. I'd hazard a guess that any of us, even myself -a complete noodle arm at the best of times- can get out of bed at 6am on the dot and do a 70 hour week if required.

Now the above factors mean you are very valuable indeed and could earn any amount of money anywhere if you so choose. I'm currently fishing for something else to do, who knows where it will end up. There are good employers out there, as others have said they just don't come up often.

Doing what though? There's no decent Ag jobs in his area and they don't want to move because they're settled and his wife has a good job.
Need a licence to drive a truck (would be my choice) you don't want to be a labourer at that age and he doesn't want to be self employed. So what else?
Its easy saying there's plenty of options but is there really?
You've been looking for a while now haven't you?

 

[thesilentone]

Doing what though? There's no decent Ag jobs in his area and they don't want to move because they're settled and his wife has a good job.
Need a licence to drive a truck (would be my choice) you don't want to be a labourer at that age and he doesn't want to be self employed. So what else?
Its easy saying there's plenty of options but is there really?
You've been looking for a while now haven't you?

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