Legality of livestock ownership

[The Agrarian]

My question is what confers ownership of farm livestock?

Example

Dairy herd. Partnership, mainly for tax purposes. No written partnership agreement. Anything which has a way of naming the owner (like a tractor, on the V5 doc) is presumably clear cut. A calf born on the farm was not bought. So no invoice exists as proof of purchase. It's mother, and it's mother's mother etc were not purchased either. The tag which it wears declares it only as being technically 'in' a herd, as in resident. The herdkeeper is the guardian, upon whom responsibility falls for compliance with statutory regulations regarding the animal.

Does the law assume ownership as a matter of precedent from time immemorial?

Residence is not proof of ownership though. When my friend brings his dog to my house, it does not become mine. Paying for keep does not provide proof of ownership. I can feed the birds who visit my garden, yet I am not their owner.

How does the law test ownership?

 

[Doc]

If it’s a trading partnership all included business assets would be split equally between partners. I suspect it’s far more complicated than that though from your post, which is very slim on detail.

 

[The Agrarian]

If one partner is the sole registered keeper of a tractor, then why would the other partners have a claim to ownership, other than upkeep? Which I don't believe necessarily demonstrates ownership of anything. But I'm clearly not a lawyer.

Business assets. This is really the interesting part of the question I suppose. Land? It's the crux of the farming operation. But the only person who owns it is the name(s) on the deed. Dead stock - who owns the load of fertiliser sitting in the yard? To my mind it's the signatories to the current account that paid for the load. Which may not be exactly the same as the names on the HMRC partnership. Or is it simply the person who's name is on the invoice, if not the trading partnership?

 

[Goweresque]

If one partner is the sole registered keeper of a tractor, then why would the other partners have a claim to ownership, other than upkeep?

Your name on the V5 is not proof of ownership. Which is why I always advise friends buying secondhand cars to get a bill of sale. Thats the only legal proof of ownership.

 

[The Agrarian]

Ok. Thanks. And so in the above example the fertiliser belongs to the partner who's name is on the invoice, despite the joint signatories of the current account having paid for it?

So what about livestock?

 

[alex04w]

If you are talking about how assets are owned in a partnership, then refer to the partnership agreement.

If there is no partnership agreement, then it is governed by the Partnership Act 1890.

 

[teslacoils]

It's possibly considered to be held on trust for the benefit of the partnership.

 

[Danllan]

Your name on the V5 is not proof of ownership. Which is why I always advise friends buying secondhand cars to get a bill of sale. Thats the only legal proof of ownership.

That's right here in the Anglo-Welsh Jurisdiction, and probably is in NI too; but there may well be some odd precedents we're not aware of over there that may affect property distribution...

 

[Samcowman]

Family partnerships a massive can of worms isn’t it.
Depends what is in the partnership agreement. One partner could be a business partner so have a share of the trading profit but not have a share of the assets which livestock would be classed as.

 

[The Agrarian]

Ok. There's been a slight (though interesting) digression into partnership rules. I don't wish to stifle fruitful discussion on that.

However, in order to simplify the question, let's remove the partnership part. Sole trader - what constitutes legal proof of ownership of the livestock?

 

[Samcowman]

Ok. There's been a slight (though interesting) digression into partnership rules. I don't wish to stifle fruitful discussion on that.

However, in order to simplify the question, let's remove the partnership part. Sole trader - what constitutes legal proof of ownership of the livestock?

Surely in the case of a calf born on a farm out of a homebred Dam. The legal owner of said calf is the names person on the calf’s passport unless there is a contract otherwise.
Caveat my views are worth as much as you have paid for them.

 

[Al R]

Surely in the case of a calf born on a farm out of a homebred Dam. The legal owner of said calf is the names person on the calf’s passport unless there is a contract otherwise.
Caveat my views are worth as much as you have paid for them.

What about a college dairy herd? Who’s name would be on those passports and who would effectively own them? @The Agrarian it might be easier using an example like this to ask

 

[Stevethemeat]

There an old law that states that the legal owner of the cow owns the calf when born so if the herd of cows were say hired into a business then all calves born belong to the cow legal owner unless a contract or agreement says differently

 

[Stevethemeat]

Surely in the case of a calf born on a farm out of a homebred Dam. The legal owner of said calf is the names person on the calf’s passport unless there is a contract otherwise.
Caveat my views are worth as much as you have paid for them. [emoji23]

A calf passport is not legal ownership it is just the keeper of the animal
A calf born is owned by the cow as and therefore the legal owner of the cow as an old law states which I discovered in the law history books
I did have the opportunity if testing this in court about 10 years ago and produced a spreadsheet showing several generations of female cattle linked by birth to the original herd proved by pedigree linage
I never got a legal answer from the judge to re test this law again but the opposition run by top London lawyers dropped their case once the spreadsheet was produced showing dam linage and the case costs were into 6 figures. Pm if you need advise

 

[Farmer Roy]

everything about farming in the UK just seems so over complicated . . .

 

[puppet]

My question is what confers ownership of farm livestock?

Example

Dairy herd. Partnership, mainly for tax purposes. No written partnership agreement. Anything which has a way of naming the owner (like a tractor, on the V5 doc) is presumably clear cut. A calf born on the farm was not bought. So no invoice exists as proof of purchase. It's mother, and it's mother's mother etc were not purchased either. The tag which it wears declares it only as being technically 'in' a herd, as in resident. The herdkeeper is the guardian, upon whom responsibility falls for compliance with statutory regulations regarding the animal.

Does the law assume ownership as a matter of precedent from time immemorial?

Residence is not proof of ownership though. When my friend brings his dog to my house, it does not become mine. Paying for keep does not provide proof of ownership.

How does the law test ownership?

All animals will have a value and listed on the annual accounts otherwise you cannot work out profits each year. The mother, etc will always be noted from birth as well until sold (when the asset is realised) or dies.
If an animal has a tag saying it is on your holding, you have the passport and you are paying to look after it then you will be the owner unless there is a clear written agreement such as a bed and breakfast wintering when the proper owner will usually keep the passport but declare the movement and be able to show that they are paying you.
The problem will arise for you when you fall out and there is evidence of a partnership, even without an agreement. My understanding is that everything within the business from tractor, cow to spanner will be shared. Houses and land would have a clear owner -usually?
My wife and I own the land/ house but our son is a partner in the business keeping it separate.

 

[Exfarmer]

These things can get incredibly complex, however today DNA is your friend.
There was a case many years ago, which I will not name names, but essentially One brother was the manager of a farm and the other brother ran a large farm not far away. There was a strong suspicion they swapped calves so that on the one farm they had a very large per centage of female dairy calves and the reverse on the beef calves.

 

[jellybean]

I know "ownership" of livestock is something we all do and is current accepted practice in farming business but you could also ask the question "Can anybody morally own another life?" People used to own slaves; maybe even still do in some places but that doesn't make it morally right. (assuming there is such a concept as right and wrong) My apologies to @The Agrarian for not answering his specific question and throwing in another dimension. It's just that as I get older and have more time to think instead of just keeping nose to the grindstone to pay the bills the more I find myself questioning all the seemingly accepted oddities of life. No, of course I don't have the answers, probably there are no answers, just thought processes we go through that hopefully help us in some way.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

My question is what confers ownership of farm livestock?

Example

Dairy herd. Partnership, mainly for tax purposes. No written partnership agreement. Anything which has a way of naming the owner (like a tractor, on the V5 doc) is presumably clear cut. A calf born on the farm was not bought. So no invoice exists as proof of purchase. It's mother, and it's mother's mother etc were not purchased either. The tag which it wears declares it only as being technically 'in' a herd, as in resident. The herdkeeper is the guardian, upon whom responsibility falls for compliance with statutory regulations regarding the animal.

Does the law assume ownership as a matter of precedent from time immemorial?

Residence is not proof of ownership though. When my friend brings his dog to my house, it does not become mine. Paying for keep does not provide proof of ownership. I can feed the birds who visit my garden, yet I am not their owner.

How does the law test ownership?

watching the landlord programmes on TV, the high court enforcement agents ask for receipts (for purchase etc) for ownership of equipment, etc , but I guess the accounts would show assets held as proof of ownership.

 

[Dry Rot]

"Possession is nine points of the law" is an old saying and I'd suggest the correct one in this instance (though to be fair, I don't know! It is a good question and certainly not new!).

But what does the phrase mean? Again, I'd suggest if you possess something you own it unless someone comes up with better proof that you don't! Or rather that they have a better claim. In case of land, that proof would normally be the title deeds -- or actual physical possession.

There have been cases about who owns an animal. I can think of an emotional movie where boy and girl dispute over the ownership of a pony. Can't remember the details, but I seem to recall that the horse was put between them and the owner was assumed to be th one the horse went to. There is also the case of King Solomon deciding which of two women was the true mother of a child. The method here was different again. Must be lots of examples before Mr Joe Average could read or write. The keeper of an animal and the person responsible for it is assumed, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to be he who feeds and waters it, so be careful what strays you take in!