Legislation on milk contracts

Alfred

Member
Real
The consultation hasn't started yet and that is the main reason that there has been very little published on the subject. When the time comes then it is going to be important to get milk producers to engage in the dialogue and try and shape a better industry for the future.
Realistically how far down the road is this process? And when will the consultation start? And more importantly stop!!
As these sort of schemes usually have a timescale attached to them.
 

bigw

Member
Location
Scotland
Real

Realistically how far down the road is this process? And when will the consultation start? And more importantly stop!!
As these sort of schemes usually have a timescale attached to them.

There is currently a stand off between Westminster and the Scottish government about the agricultural bill and I believe that’s whats holding things up. I don’t know if it would be helpful to have a long drawn out debate before the consultation detail are known.
 

Alfred

Member
There is currently a stand off between Westminster and the Scottish government about the agricultural bill and I believe that’s whats holding things up. I don’t know if it would be helpful to have a long drawn out debate before the consultation detail are known.
OK thanks, is that a way of saying it ain't getting off the drawing board then?
Because if the snp have to agree with Westminster over anything it could be a long way off in the distance yet then !!
Or quite possibly it will never happen unless us English go it alone!
 
Legislation that no milk can be paid for at less than CPO, not farmer or dairy.
Frightening some of the losses this year in the processors.

Farmers and other businesses make losses, why shouldn't processors? The government will never intervene in a marketplace to prevent companies making losses. Maybe some of these losses were due to their own fault, got the sums wrong, couldn't find customers, couldn't find suppliers or similar? That's part for the course and a reminder to bring your A game at all times.

This is not kindergarden.
 
There is never going to be a cost of production contract forced into being. Those who believe there will are seven sarnies short of a picnic.

The reasons are two fold:

1. What makes milk so special that means it needs special government regulation (and inevitable oversight, which costs me, the tax payer money) in this way? The consumer, (little old me yet again) is going to say: 'fudge that, why don't you regulate something else more useful to me, Mr government who I pay for an elect, like the price of electricity or petrol?'

2. The industry itself admits that the range in the different costs of production across the board are insane; I cannot remember exact or up to date figures but it was in excess of 10 pence years ago between the top 15% and bottom 15% of producers. With that in mind, whose cost of production are you going to base any contract on?


The same is true of beef and sheep producers. The entire industry is hobbled by the fact that there are a percentage of producers of all commodities that do not understand their costs of production, probably do not know what they are and do not intend to change anything, ever, in that regard instead preferring to maybe ponder on it when they are 6 foot under and that is the Gods honest truth.

This is why I am firmly of the opinion that the training wheels coming off will be a beneficial thing for the industry at large in the long run. Pain in the short term no doubt as there always is in any uncertainty but it will undoubtedly bring more benefit in the medium and long term as people are forced to dust off their calculators and learn how to use them.

People say why should I waste my life producing something if they won't pay me properly for it? The obvious answer is why are you asking anyone else? If you don't think it is worthwhile, stop doing it, and send a message that you aren't going to be the golden goose that everyone makes money out of.
 

Alfred

Member
No one has proposed a COP contract
Which brings me nicely to the point of aligned contracts. How on earth are you going to incorporate these producer's into this process, or is the intention to get these aligned contracts brought under the same umbrella some how? Which will surely mean their demise !!
 

bar718

Member
Which brings me nicely to the point of aligned contracts. How on earth are you going to incorporate these producer's into this process, or is the intention to get these aligned contracts brought under the same umbrella some how? Which will surely mean their demise !!

As with any contract, they are written up and the terms agreed between the two parties as long as those terms fit within any legislation at the time so it won’t change them.
 

Alfred

Member
As with any contract, they are written up and the terms agreed between the two parties as long as those terms fit within any legislation at the time so it won’t change them.
So the point in all this is going to be what?
Apart from taking away being able to negotiate our own contract with processors which we already do!!!
The only thing that I'm at times not happy with is the price, but that's market related and nothing to do with contracts.
So the magic legislative wand is going to do what exactly to improve my lot???
 

bar718

Member
So the point in all this is going to be what?
Apart from taking away being able to negotiate our own contract with processors which we already do!!!
The only thing that I'm at times not happy with is the price, but that's market related and nothing to do with contracts.
So the magic legislative wand is going to do what exactly to improve my lot???

To say improve I fear you may have got hold of the wrong end of the wand as although something may be done with good intentions the unintended consequences of what I gather is being proposed will very easily work in the exact opposite direction. If we think we have volatility and quick price movements now wait until a processor has you by the short and curlies by telling you your short milk contract ends soon and we don’t need your milk but will take it off your hands at a price that suits us, just to help you out obviously.
 

Alfred

Member
To say improve I fear you may have got hold of the wrong end of the wand as although something may be done with good intentions the unintended consequences of what I gather is being proposed will very easily work in the exact opposite direction. If we think we have volatility and quick price movements now wait until a processor has you by the short and curlies by telling you your short milk contract ends soon and we don’t need your milk but will take it off your hands at a price that suits us, just to help you out obviously.
If that is the case of what's proposed, I totally agree with you.
So why don't they legislate to incorporate a 3 month notice period for the producer and a 12 month notice period for the processor? These are just the sort of proposals that should be discussed with farmer representatives before its put on the table for all to see!
After all its the farmer representatives who handle these sort of negotiations day to day and not the nfu's.!!
Wasn't so very long ago I remember the nfu and other bodies touting A and B contracts as the salvation of dairy farmers and look how that turned out!!
And what happened they all ran a mile away when that idea went pear shaped.
And don't forget the voluntary code of practice another game changer that WAS. NOT
 

westwards

Member
@Alfred are you happy with what we have just now ? Retailers controlling the market giving 15% of producers a good price for 70% of their milk!! Oh and open you books up so we can see how much you need to survive !!

That is if you can get an aligned contract .
 

Alfred

Member
@Alfred are you happy with what we have just now ? Retailers controlling the market giving 15% of producers a good price for 70% of their milk!! Oh and open you books up so we can see how much you need to survive !!

That is if you can get an aligned contract .
The problem is @westwards non of us know what we are discussing!
We are once again being told what's best for us by others.
Do I want an aligned contract? No way.
Do I want to cover my reasonable costs ?
Of course I do. But too achieve the second goal needs more joined up thinking than we are seeing at the moment !!!
Do you know the details of what's being proposed @westwards??
You are spot on when you say that more should be on here discussing this subject..
But what I want to know is what we are susupposed to be discussing, and exactly what parts and clauses within contracts that could fall under legislative powers.
That would be a very good starting point.
@bigw
 

bigw

Member
Location
Scotland
That is why I think there is little point until the consultation starts, if it starts at all @Alfred. Dairy UK are already dead against any change and want the whole think binned which in my opinion says it all really.
 

Alfred

Member
That is why I think there is little point until the consultation starts, if it starts at all @Alfred. Dairy UK are already dead against any change and want the whole think binned which in my opinion says it all really.
Not surprised at all by that @bigw..
You only have to look who sits on the board of dairy UK to realise that they ain't going to support this.
When you look at the history of dairy UK and realise that it's a new name for the dairy trade federation who were instrumental in taking any power away from us producers in the first place, By instigating the demise of the mmb.

WHY SHOULD IT INVOLVE THEM ANYWAY??

I thought that the whole point of the legislation in the first place was to restore some balance of fairness, selling power, transparency and supply opportunities to us producers. Obviously I got that bit wrong in my assumptions then??
 

westwards

Member
Had our NFUs president and milk chairman at local AGM last night, and by all accounts the consultation will start as soon as the Text has been agreed by all parties and you are right @Alfred
if Dairy UK don't and won't agree then get on and consult on this without them , there purpose is not to help producers anyway. One of the reason's I am told that Defra are behind this move is that they are getting a lot of grief form the supply trade that they are having to give too much credit to milk producers who are strugling to pay bills.
When you first posted this @Alfred I knew a little about this through my contacts in NFUs, but I hope by highlighting this topic it get folks thinking and joining in the consultation in the new year.
 

Alfred

Member
Had our NFUs president and milk chairman at local AGM last night, and by all accounts the consultation will start as soon as the Text has been agreed by all parties and you are right @Alfred
if Dairy UK don't and won't agree then get on and consult on this without them , there purpose is not to help producers anyway. One of the reason's I am told that Defra are behind this move is that they are getting a lot of grief form the supply trade that they are having to give too much credit to milk producers who are strugling to pay bills.
When you first posted this @Alfred I knew a little about this through my contacts in NFUs, but I hope by highlighting this topic it get folks thinking and joining in the consultation in the new year.
What hopefully is not being lost sight of by the nfu's is the very fluid situation we are in atm. All could change on the 11th December, and then change again at the end of March.
Seems crazy to me to push on with this until we now which cards we've been dealt by brexit.
(and by that I mean, if any legal challenges to this move are put through the European courts or the UK courts, if you get my drift?)
 
Location
southwest
Having legally binding milk contracts that protect the farmer is quite reasonable and something most Governments (and consumers) would be in favour off, in the same way as utility contracts would be scrutinised by Govt.

However, I don't think that the price level is necessarily part of the same debate. That would be something for OFT to investigate, if the political will exists, which it doesn't atm

Perhaps farmer should hope for a Labour Govt. which won't put big business interests ahead of those of the consumer
 
Tags
dairy

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 79 42.0%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 35.1%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.0%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,292
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
Top