Leyland 272 back end oil filler / dipstick

X344chap

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Central Scotland
Without doubt that's a very unique tractor. However, I'm afraid I'd be wondering whether it was unique when it left Bathgate or whether it 'became unique' sometime after that. A couple of questions:-

- Is the Serial No. prefix 272QM or 272QMS ?
- Are the rear cab mounts the cylindrical type with a horizontal securing bolt or the 'doughnut' type with a vertical securing bolt?
- If it was 1st registered in March '76, I'm assuming it's on a 'P' plate?

Here's why I'm a bit sceptical. Bathgate didn't launch their Q-cab (10 speed QM-cabbed) tractors to the UK press until May 1976. Tractor Q cab legislation didn't actually come into force until 1st June 1976 ..... it had been delayed for 12 months because many tractor manufacturers hadn't got their (new) model ranges ready in time. Now Leyland definitely built some QM cabs before May '76. Some were sent to the NIAE at Silsoe in 1974 & 75 for statutory ROPS and noise testing. But these weren't Synchro models ..... they were all 5 x 2 tractors.

It's always possible that you've got a unique pre-build machine, but road-registered with a commercial(?) user 2 years before the Synchro tractors were launched to UK dealers?? I regrettably think that's unlikely. I'd be interested to hear JVP's opinion
Its 272QMSN then the serial number stamped into the frame in front of the black manufacturers plate. The manufacturers plate has the same serial number as the number stamped into the frame.

All the numbers tally with the V5 I got with the tractor - which was the old style blue V5 when the previous owner acquired the tractor in 1981.
rear cab mounts are doughnut with vertical bolt
Yes its on a P plate - the area identifier would suggest originally registered in Newcastle Upon Tyne

One other strange thing - the oil filter housing is almost horizontal but slopes slightly down to the left. Usually the filter can is upside down just off the vertical to the right.
A final quirk is that it has the optional heavy duty lift arms fitted. Ive never seen them except on a parts catalogue. If they are original to the tractor then some heavy lifting was intended.
 
Last edited:

X344chap

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Central Scotland
Its 272QMSN then the serial number stamped into the frame in front of the black manufacturers plate. The manufacturers plate has the same serial number as the number stamped into the frame.

All the numbers tally with the V5 I got with the tractor - which was the old style blue V5 when the previous owner acquired the tractor in 1981.
rear cab mounts are doughnut with vertical bolt
Yes its on a P plate - the area identifier would suggest originally registered in Newcastle Upon Tyne

One other strange thing - the oil filter housing is almost horizontal but slopes slightly down to the left. Usually the filter can is upside down just off the vertical to the right.
A final quirk is that it has the optional heavy duty lift arms fitted. Ive never seen them except on a parts catalogue. If they are original to the tractor then some heavy lifting was intended.
On further investigation it looks like a VIN number mixup with the DVLA.
 
Its 272QMSN then the serial number stamped into the frame in front of the black manufacturers plate. The manufacturers plate has the same serial number as the number stamped into the frame.

All the numbers tally with the V5 I got with the tractor - which was the old style blue V5 when the previous owner acquired the tractor in 1981.
rear cab mounts are doughnut with vertical bolt
Yes its on a P plate - the area identifier would suggest originally registered in Newcastle Upon Tyne

One other strange thing - the oil filter housing is almost horizontal but slopes slightly down to the left. Usually the filter can is upside down just off the vertical to the right.
A final quirk is that it has the optional heavy duty lift arms fitted. Ive never seen them except on a parts catalogue. If they are original to the tractor then some heavy lifting was intended.
Glad you've got to the bottom of it. I'm afraid your cab doesn't originate from 1976.

Regarding the other features you noted:-

- I've seen engine oil filter housings installed like that on 'Middleweight' QM tractors, but for some reason mainly on 262 models ..... The hydrostatic steering pipes are then routed over the top of the filter housing. Most 272's seem to have them mounted vertically / slightly rearwards.
- H.D. lower link arms were fitted to later 384's & all 270's, 272's & 472's intended for the home market. When the QM cab was introduced they were also fitted to 262 & 462 models. I've never seen a 272 fitted with anything else.
 

X344chap

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Central Scotland
Glad you've got to the bottom of it. I'm afraid your cab doesn't originate from 1976.

Regarding the other features you noted:-

- I've seen engine oil filter housings installed like that on 'Middleweight' QM tractors, but for some reason mainly on 262 models ..... The hydrostatic steering pipes are then routed over the top of the filter housing. Most 272's seem to have them mounted vertically / slightly rearwards.
- H.D. lower link arms were fitted to later 384's & all 270's, 272's & 472's intended for the home market. When the QM cab was introduced they were also fitted to 262 & 462 models. I've never seen a 272 fitted with anything else.
Re your comment on HD lower link arms - this is what is fitted - if you look at the OPs 272 at the top of the thread - thats more the standard lower link arms i would have expected.
 

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Re your comment on HD lower link arms - this is what is fitted - if you look at the OPs 272 at the top of the thread - thats more the standard lower link arms i would have expected.
Those are 'Jeffes' quick release, telescopic 'hook-type' lower link arms ...... They were offered by Leyland as an option in place of their normal, ball-type Heavy Duty links arms, for the princely sum of £83.80 plus VAT (Nov'78 prices).

Jeffes had made these hook-type quick-release link ends since the late '60s or early '70s, but they never really took off. Leyland took the bold step of actually including them as a build option, but I've only ever found a few tractors fitted with them. In truth it was just a different end section welded onto the normal Leyland H.D. lower link arm.

The hook-type arm ends take a normal linkage ball, just like most modern tractors. You release the ball by raising the lever which extends back down beside the link arm (bent in your example). These levers release the locking pawl which retains the linkage ball and should be located so you can latch the lever end onto the top of the link arm whilst coupling up, thereby keeping the hook catch in 'released' position.

The round knob on top of the link arm is a spring-loaded catch. Pulling this up permits the entire hook-end to telescope out of the box-section under the lower link. That way you could back up to a heavy implement, get out & extend the lower link ends, engage the hooks on the ball ends (fitted to the implement) and then reverse the tractor until the telescopic lower link sections returned back into their sockets & were locked in place.

Somehow I suspect few people ever bothered ....... not with most implements which you'd put on the back of a 272.
 

X344chap

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Central Scotland
Those are 'Jeffes' quick release, telescopic 'hook-type' lower link arms ...... They were offered by Leyland as an option in place of their normal, ball-type Heavy Duty links arms, for the princely sum of £83.80 plus VAT (Nov'78 prices).

Jeffes had made these hook-type quick-release link ends since the late '60s or early '70s, but they never really took off. Leyland took the bold step of actually including them as a build option, but I've only ever found a few tractors fitted with them. In truth it was just a different end section welded onto the normal Leyland H.D. lower link arm.

The hook-type arm ends take a normal linkage ball, just like most modern tractors. You release the ball by raising the lever which extends back down beside the link arm (bent in your example). These levers release the locking pawl which retains the linkage ball and should be located so you can latch the lever end onto the top of the link arm whilst coupling up, thereby keeping the hook catch in 'released' position.

The round knob on top of the link arm is a spring-loaded catch. Pulling this up permits the entire hook-end to telescope out of the box-section under the lower link. That way you could back up to a heavy implement, get out & extend the lower link ends, engage the hooks on the ball ends (fitted to the implement) and then reverse the tractor until the telescopic lower link sections returned back into their sockets & were locked in place.

Somehow I suspect few people ever bothered ....... not with most implements which you'd put on the back of a 272.
Thank you for an excellent and comprehensive reply - the amount of knowledge you have of the Leyland marque is amazing. Once again TFF proves its worth.

Quick question on the Jeffes hook arms - do you know if they take standard cat2 balls - or do the balls need to have some sort of cutout for the release lever to capture them? I'm staggered by the amount of balls i've seen on the internet......
 
Thank you for an excellent and comprehensive reply - the amount of knowledge you have of the Leyland marque is amazing. Once again TFF proves its worth.

Quick question on the Jeffes hook arms - do you know if they take standard cat2 balls - or do the balls need to have some sort of cutout for the release lever to capture them? I'm staggered by the amount of balls i've seen on the internet......
I'm afraid that I don't know. The ball ends should be standard - definitely shouldn't have any form of cut out (like MF ones) ... just a rounded outside. However, those link arms were made at a time when ISO Standards for those components weren't always so universally recognised or followed, so I don't know whether a modern, 'standard' Cat 2 ball end will fit. Try one of the replaceable Cat 2 ball ends from the Nuffield / Leyland standard-duty lower link arms & go from there. Also, bear in mind your hook ends may have worn over the years!

Andy
 

X344chap

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Central Scotland
I'm afraid that I don't know. The ball ends should be standard - definitely shouldn't have any form of cut out (like MF ones) ... just a rounded outside. However, those link arms were made at a time when ISO Standards for those components weren't always so universally recognised or followed, so I don't know whether a modern, 'standard' Cat 2 ball end will fit. Try one of the replaceable Cat 2 ball ends from the Nuffield / Leyland standard-duty lower link arms & go from there. Also, bear in mind your hook ends may have worn over the years!

Andy
Thanks again Andy - at the risk of thread creep can i ask you a supplementary question? Is there a recognised source of chassis numbers and year of manufacture for Leyland tractors that came out of Bathgate? I'm still trying to run down this mystery 272 and get a V5 for it and an official year of manufacture would be a big help. I know Dave Morgan could help with this but i didnt want to pull the trigger on this yet until i had a chance to speak to the previous owner in person. Knowing what the reg letter should have been may jog his memory.
 
Thanks again Andy - at the risk of thread creep can i ask you a supplementary question? Is there a recognised source of chassis numbers and year of manufacture for Leyland tractors that came out of Bathgate? I'm still trying to run down this mystery 272 and get a V5 for it and an official year of manufacture would be a big help. I know Dave Morgan could help with this but i didnt want to pull the trigger on this yet until i had a chance to speak to the previous owner in person. Knowing what the reg letter should have been may jog his memory.
Hi,

The man who'll know is JVP ... I'm sure you know who I mean ..... Otherwise someone else within the Nuffield & Leyland Tractor Club. You can get a good idea of the age (+/- a few months) by looking at the casting codes on the various components (engine block, transmission, hydraulic lift, rear axle (trumpet) housings). These will tell you the absolute earliest date the vehicle must have been built after ....... assuming no one has swapped any bits from another tractor since manufacture. There's a page on both the Nuffield & Leyland Club website and also on the Forum that explains how to interpret the codes.

If I was a betting man, I reckon you're looking at either 'T', 'V' or 'W' reg (most probably 'T' or 'V'), but I accept that that is a rather wide range. I'll try & send you a P.M.

Andy
 

Tractor lover

Member
Mixed Farmer
Without doubt that's a very unique tractor. However, I'm afraid I'd be wondering whether it was unique when it left Bathgate or whether it 'became unique' sometime after that. A couple of questions:-

- Is the Serial No. prefix 272QM or 272QMS ?
- Are the rear cab mounts the cylindrical type with a horizontal securing bolt or the 'doughnut' type with a vertical securing bolt?
- If it was 1st registered in March '76, I'm assuming it's on a 'P' plate?

Here's why I'm a bit sceptical. Bathgate didn't launch their Q-cab (10 speed QM-cabbed) tractors to the UK press until May 1976. Tractor Q cab legislation didn't actually come into force until 1st June 1976 ..... it had been delayed for 12 months because many tractor manufacturers hadn't got their (new) model ranges ready in time. Now Leyland definitely built some QM cabs before May '76. Some were sent to the NIAE at Silsoe in 1974 & 75 for statutory ROPS and noise testing. But these weren't Synchro models ..... they were all 5 x 2 tractors.

It's always possible that you've got a unique pre-build machine, but road-registered with a commercial(?) user 2 years before the Synchro tractors were launched to UK dealers?? I regrettably think that's unlikely. I'd be interested to hear JVP's opinion
CS, you seem to be quiet knowledgable about Leyland’s and I would like to know what you think about the following:-
I am doing up a leyland 272 . It’s a Q cab Syncro 3x3. Chassis no is211368 . Frame no 272/QMS /309365/237178.;Manu in 1976. I was talking to a man recently who seemed to know his Leyland262 and 272 tractors . He was wondering about mine as to what it is re standard , Syncro or what for the following reasons:-
(1) he said that the Syncro has a two step ladder on both sides BUT mine has only one step on both sides.
(2) the inside corners of the upper window at the back are square and not rounded.
(3) the struts to hold up the back window I have are of the longer type than the ones needed to hold up the round cornered one. Also, the ball part of the ball and socket ‘unit’ is screwed directly into the cab frame
Now I am just wondering if my Leyland 272 was assembled during a transition period while moving from the 272 standard to the 272 Syncro.

the cab is attached to the tractor body horizontal bolts going through high grade rubber cylinders
 

Renaultman

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Darlington
CS, you seem to be quiet knowledgable about Leyland’s and I would like to know what you think about the following:-
I am doing up a leyland 272 . It’s a Q cab Syncro 3x3. Chassis no is211368 . Frame no 272/QMS /309365/237178.;Manu in 1976. I was talking to a man recently who seemed to know his Leyland262 and 272 tractors . He was wondering about mine as to what it is re standard , Syncro or what for the following reasons:-
(1) he said that the Syncro has a two step ladder on both sides BUT mine has only one step on both sides.
(2) the inside corners of the upper window at the back are square and not rounded.
(3) the struts to hold up the back window I have are of the longer type than the ones needed to hold up the round cornered one. Also, the ball part of the ball and socket ‘unit’ is screwed directly into the cab frame
Now I am just wondering if my Leyland 272 was assembled during a transition period while moving from the 272 standard to the 272 Syncro.

the cab is attached to the tractor body horizontal bolts going through high grade rubber cylinders
It could be a transition we bought a 245 and 272 in 77 and 78 both non synchros. I can't remember any more of the details, sorry.
 
CS, you seem to be quiet knowledgable about Leyland’s and I would like to know what you think about the following:-
I am doing up a leyland 272 . It’s a Q cab Syncro 3x3. Chassis no is211368 . Frame no 272/QMS /309365/237178.;Manu in 1976. I was talking to a man recently who seemed to know his Leyland262 and 272 tractors . He was wondering about mine as to what it is re standard , Syncro or what for the following reasons:-
(1) he said that the Syncro has a two step ladder on both sides BUT mine has only one step on both sides.
(2) the inside corners of the upper window at the back are square and not rounded.
(3) the struts to hold up the back window I have are of the longer type than the ones needed to hold up the round cornered one. Also, the ball part of the ball and socket ‘unit’ is screwed directly into the cab frame
Now I am just wondering if my Leyland 272 was assembled during a transition period while moving from the 272 standard to the 272 Syncro.

the cab is attached to the tractor body horizontal bolts going through high grade rubber cylinders
Hi, The thing you need to bear in mind that over the last 46 years there's a possibility that a certain amount of 'cross-fertilisation' may have taken place (and you know where that leads!). Bits may have been fitted from other tractors. Even if not:-

(1) It is almost certain that your tractor wasn't manufactured in 1976. Leyland didn't launch the Synchro tractors until 1978. Even then it would have been a few months post-launch until they were readily available to purchase. Judging by your tractor's serial number, I'd guess it was built in 1978, so it probably is an early Synchro model. Also bear in mind that the numbers '6' and '8' can be easily mistaken in administrative circles :rolleyes:

(2) The cab you describe is a 'QM' cab off a '5x2' (10 speed) tractor, rather that a 'QMS' cab off a Synchro vehicle. Subtle differences include the type of rear cab mounts (QM cabs have the horizontal bolt type). Also the square-cornered rear window (round-cornered for QMS). On the Synchro tractors the rear window attaches with a 'piano'-type hinge bolted to the cab upper rear cross-member. The 'QM' rear window attaches via two cranked arms which extend inside the cab & pivot on points up inside the roof space.

I'm not aware that any (QM or QMS) cabs were fitted with 'two-step'-type access steps. However,the QMS steps do have a fill-in plate on the edges nearest the rear tyres, to help prevent mud getting thrown onto the step surface (it didn't work). They are also fitted with little steel plates over the top of the front sidelights, to prevent light shining back onto the windscreen & into the driver's eyes.

Now, having said all this, it doesn't mean your tractor isn't a genuine Synchro model. If you look at the original publicity leaflets for the Synchro 262 & 272, you'll see that those tractors are actually fitted with 'QM' rather than 'QMS' cabs. .... However, there's a reason for this ... because (as revealed by Tony Thomas of Leyland tractors), these were actually '5x2' QM tractors modified with suitable decals to look like 'Synchro' models for the photo shoots.

It is possible that yours is an early-production Synchro tractor & was fitted with a '5x2' 'QM' cab to use up existing stock at Bathgate .... or it could have been retrofitted at a later date, perhaps to replace a damaged cab. All I would say ... I doubt if it was built in 1976,
 

Tractor lover

Member
Mixed Farmer
Hi, The thing you need to bear in mind that over the last 46 years there's a possibility that a certain amount of 'cross-fertilisation' may have taken place (and you know where that leads!). Bits may have been fitted from other tractors. Even if not:-

(1) It is almost certain that your tractor wasn't manufactured in 1976. Leyland didn't launch the Synchro tractors until 1978. Even then it would have been a few months post-launch until they were readily available to purchase. Judging by your tractor's serial number, I'd guess it was built in 1978, so it probably is an early Synchro model. Also bear in mind that the numbers '6' and '8' can be easily mistaken in administrative circles :rolleyes:

(2) The cab you describe is a 'QM' cab off a '5x2' (10 speed) tractor, rather that a 'QMS' cab off a Synchro vehicle. Subtle differences include the type of rear cab mounts (QM cabs have the horizontal bolt type). Also the square-cornered rear window (round-cornered for QMS). On the Synchro tractors the rear window attaches with a 'piano'-type hinge bolted to the cab upper rear cross-member. The 'QM' rear window attaches via two cranked arms which extend inside the cab & pivot on points up inside the roof space.

I'm not aware that any (QM or QMS) cabs were fitted with 'two-step'-type access steps. However,the QMS steps do have a fill-in plate on the edges nearest the rear tyres, to help prevent mud getting thrown onto the step surface (it didn't work). They are also fitted with little steel plates over the top of the front sidelights, to prevent light shining back onto the windscreen & into the driver's eyes.

Now, having said all this, it doesn't mean your tractor isn't a genuine Synchro model. If you look at the original publicity leaflets for the Synchro 262 & 272, you'll see that those tractors are actually fitted with 'QM' rather than 'QMS' cabs. .... However, there's a reason for this ... because (as revealed by Tony Thomas of Leyland tractors), these were actually '5x2' QM tractors modified with suitable decals to look like 'Synchro' models for the photo shoots.

It is possible that yours is an early-production Synchro tractor & was fitted with a '5x2' 'QM' cab to use up existing stock at Bathgate .... or it could have been retrofitted at a later date, perhaps to replace a damaged cab. All I would say ... I doubt if it was built in 1976,
Your detailed and prompt reply is much appreciated. It fills in a lot of gaps in my search for ‘what I have got’. It’s my curiosity that is driving me. It has been a bit confusing when ordering parts eg. Ordering parts - the struts- re cab for my Leyland 272 Q Cab syncromesh and finding out afterwards that my cab is of the standard version
 

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