Leyland County - How rare are they ?

Do the bray ones have a dif lock on the front axle or are they 3 wheel drive
There is front diff lock as standard on agricultural versions,but some industrial ones are without lock.

I seem to recall that The County versions had a nasty habit of breaking in half.

This is such a fairy tale what i dont understand.Over the years i have been asking about this "habit" from many people who have been dealing with these tractors in a past,and nobody never heard about this,before Leyland 4100 article in one tractor magazine around 15-year ago.
Six-cyl. Leylands had problems with rear engine mounts,and then cause clutch failures,but never heard any true story about breaking half.
 

John 1594

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
There is front diff lock as standard on agricultural versions,but some industrial ones are without lock.



This is such a fairy tale what i dont understand.Over the years i have been asking about this "habit" from many people who have been dealing with these tractors in a past,and nobody never heard about this,before Leyland 4100 article in one tractor magazine around 15-year ago.
Six-cyl. Leylands had problems with rear engine mounts,and then cause clutch failures,but never heard any true story about breaking half.


It could be something to do with a "fatal flaw" in the design of the mainframe, which dated right back to 1949. The designer, Henry Merrit, previously worked at DB, who had poineered the split frame concept, enabling the engine, clutch or gearbox to be removed without splitting the tractor

Merrit copied the design as much as he could without infringining the DB patent on it. What this meant, was that the bellhousing wasnt bolted to the engine from the mainframe up, it was only attached at the bottom. A rubber sealing strip was placed between the bellhousing and the engine backplate to fill the gap

This meant that basically, all the stress in the middle part of the tractor was concerntrated through the base of the main frame, which was about 9" thick and 20" wide. The back of the engine wasnt connected to the bellhousing or the gearbox

i recall an article in CT about a leyland 502 fitted with an industrial loader, which was driven at high speed into a pile of gravel during "testing"

the frame broke clean in halves when the bucket hit the gravel, as it produced a shock loading which pressed the middle of the frame down, the gap between the engine and bellhousing allowed for enough flex to break the mainframe in two
 
There is front diff lock as standard on agricultural versions,but some industrial ones are without lock.



This is such a fairy tale what i dont understand.Over the years i have been asking about this "habit" from many people who have been dealing with these tractors in a past,and nobody never heard about this,before Leyland 4100 article in one tractor magazine around 15-year ago.
Six-cyl. Leylands had problems with rear engine mounts,and then cause clutch failures,but never heard any true story about breaking half.

Wasn't the clutch faliure problem with the leylands, flexible rubber engine mounts, and solid gearbox with no flexible drive inbetween. Im sure i have read somewhere that someone made solid engine mounts for his tractor, and that was the end of his clutch problems.
 
It could be something to do with a "fatal flaw" in the design of the mainframe, which dated right back to 1949. The designer, Henry Merrit, previously worked at DB, who had poineered the split frame concept, enabling the engine, clutch or gearbox to be removed without splitting the tractor

Merrit copied the design as much as he could without infringining the DB patent on it. What this meant, was that the bellhousing wasnt bolted to the engine from the mainframe up, it was only attached at the bottom. A rubber sealing strip was placed between the bellhousing and the engine backplate to fill the gap

This meant that basically, all the stress in the middle part of the tractor was concerntrated through the base of the main frame, which was about 9" thick and 20" wide. The back of the engine wasnt connected to the bellhousing or the gearbox

i recall an article in CT about a leyland 502 fitted with an industrial loader, which was driven at high speed into a pile of gravel during "testing"

the frame broke clean in halves when the bucket hit the gravel, as it produced a shock loading which pressed the middle of the frame down, the gap between the engine and bellhousing allowed for enough flex to break the mainframe in two

John 1594,
Check the facts please,before you write such a bull sh!t.Leyland six-cyl models have nothing to do with your David Brown copy chassis.285/2100 has full lenght steel chassis from front to rear axle,like JD fullframe models today.County versions 485/4100 uses same construction,but very different chassis members(thicker and much higher)
Also Leyland 502,again nothing to do with Merrit design.
245/502 tractors are fitted with 3-cyl. Perkins D3-152 engine without any kind of chassis.Engine is bolted straight to clutch housing/gearbox.I dont remember CT article,but if tractor really was 502,it cant break like you wrote,because tractor dont have such a chassis.
4-cyl. Leyland tractors are fitted with cast iron front frame,similar style to DB,and yes i have heard some cases which are cracked around clutch housing.Normally with big front-loader,heavy weight block at 3-point linkage and crazy driver combination. But luckily DB`s never broke...
 

John 1594

Member
Location
Cambridgeshire
John 1594,
Check the facts please,before you write such a bull sh!t.Leyland six-cyl models have nothing to do with your David Brown copy chassis.285/2100 has full lenght steel chassis from front to rear axle,like JD fullframe models today.County versions 485/4100 uses same construction,but very different chassis members(thicker and much higher)
Also Leyland 502,again nothing to do with Merrit design.
245/502 tractors are fitted with 3-cyl. Perkins D3-152 engine without any kind of chassis.Engine is bolted straight to clutch housing/gearbox.I dont remember CT article,but if tractor really was 502,it cant break like you wrote,because tractor dont have such a chassis.
4-cyl. Leyland tractors are fitted with cast iron front frame,similar style to DB,and yes i have heard some cases which are cracked around clutch housing.Normally with big front-loader,heavy weight block at 3-point linkage and crazy driver combination. But luckily DB`s never broke...

Article was wrote by by a leyland man, Tony Thomas i think. .

Its still a design flaw, however much you say it isnt. Not having the gearbox connected to the engine above driveshaft level was a stupid idea when all said and done. Fine when it was a 40hp petrol parafin tractor, not so fine when it had an 80hp diesel under the bonnet
 

Ley253

Member
Location
Bath
Article was wrote by by a leyland man, Tony Thomas i think. .

Its still a design flaw, however much you say it isnt. Not having the gearbox connected to the engine above driveshaft level was a stupid idea when all said and done. Fine when it was a 40hp petrol parafin tractor, not so fine when it had an 80hp diesel under the bonnet
Sorry John, cant agree. It would have been a flaw if the engine was stressed to take the chassis loads, as the little Perkins is. If the Leyland truck engine had been bolted to the top of the trans, there is a good chance that the block would have fractured, as it was not designed to carry such loads.
 
Article was wrote by by a leyland man, Tony Thomas i think. .

Its still a design flaw, however much you say it isnt. Not having the gearbox connected to the engine above driveshaft level was a stupid idea when all said and done. Fine when it was a 40hp petrol parafin tractor, not so fine when it had an 80hp diesel under the bonnet

John,you dont take my point.Design fault or not,but this design what you blaim now,has nothing to do with 485/4100 County versions,which was mentioned in post which Roy_H wrote.And nothing to do with 502 design also.
 

Layhercake

New Member
The Leyland Nuffield BMC tractor message board would be the place to find an answer.
Hi
To me, that looks like a bray conversion...given the lack of twin propeller shafts that county tended to use on thier conversions. They changed each rear half axle for thier own version which housed a set of bevel gears, transmitting indepandant drive alongside each side of the tractor to the crown wheel and pinion located in each front axle section

bray simply bolted a tranfer box underneath the bellhousing and took the drive from the gearbo pinion shaft direct to the center of the front axle

either way, its rare, quite rare in fact[/QUOT
If its a Bray conversion it would be rarer than a County

How much do you think this one would be worth as it's missing it's tombstone ?
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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