Lime spreading rates.

[Valtra Man]

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Thank you. Ordered Always wondered about the accuracy with the stamp on soil cores sent to the lab because of the bits of lime on the surface. Looking forward to compare results

 

[Mounty]

Thank you. Ordered Always wondered about the accuracy with the stamp on soil cores sent to the lab because of the bits of lime on the surface. Looking forward to compare results

Well you'll have a very accurate test now. Did some fields last week, all came back from lab at 7.3 to 7.7 but areas and patches as low as 5.5 in some fields with the BDH kit.

 

[Valtra Man]

Well you'll have a very accurate test now. Did some fields last week, all came back from lab at 7.3 to 7.7 but areas and patches as low as 5.5 in some fields with the BDH kit.

That’s my exact concern. Neglected lime for a few years but then tested whole farm with not very impressive results. Tested again over next few years after liming with some results overly impressive considering the amount of lime gone on. Some lime I’ve used you can still see on the surface now so always thought that might influence lab results so been meaning to buy my own tester for years. Reading this thread has given me the boot needed to get onelooking forward to using it

 

[Cab-over Pete]

If carrying out your own sampling, please be mindful of a couple of things.

You MUST keep different soil types separate. In some areas of the country soil types will vary massively within fields so this must be taken into account when collecting samples.

Also, take note of the aspect of the land, rises and dips, low spots along water courses, sites of old buildings etc. Again, this could all make a difference, as will old field boundaries often made obvious by lines of trees. They knew where to put hedges all those years ago.

It’s sometimes a long, laborious job, but it needs doing properly if an accurate pH is to be found in all areas.

I hope I’m not stating the obvious, but over the years I’ve learnt that not all farmers are as careful collecting samples as they ought to be!!

I had an old customer call once to ask if I could sample fields for pH. I explained I was flat out so it may not be for a week or so. He asked about collecting samples and we spoke about how to do it, how to separate soil types, numbering all the bags, drawing a simple map to know where the samples were from etc. He went off happy with that and said he would drop the soils for two 20 acre fields round to my yard a couple of days later.

The map was very good, he had taken approximately 40-50 cores of soil in each field and written on the map just where they were from. He had plotted trees, a pond and an old boundary very accurately for a hand drawn map.

But all the soil sample were mixed up in two buckets named North 20 and Burges!!

 

[Valtra Man]

If carrying out your own sampling, please be mindful of a couple of things.

You MUST keep different soil types separate. In some areas of the country soil types will vary massively within fields so this must be taken into account when collecting samples.

Also, take note of the aspect of the land, rises and dips, low spots along water courses, sites of old buildings etc. Again, this could all make a difference, as will old field boundaries often made obvious by lines of trees. They knew where to put hedges all those years ago.

It’s sometimes a long, laborious job, but it needs doing properly if an accurate pH is to be found in all areas.

I hope I’m not stating the obvious, but over the years I’ve learnt that not all farmers are as careful collecting samples as they ought to be!!

I had an old customer call once to ask if I could sample fields for pH. I explained I was flat out so it may not be for a week or so. He asked about collecting samples and we spoke about how to do it, how to separate soil types, numbering all the bags, drawing a simple map to know where the samples were from etc. He went off happy with that and said he would drop the soils for two 20 acre fields round to my yard a couple of days later.

The map was very good, he had taken approximately 40-50 cores of soil in each field and written on the map just where they were from. He had plotted trees, a pond and an old boundary very accurately for a hand drawn map.

But all the soil sample were mixed up in two buckets named North 20 and Burges!!

I’ll take all the advice I can get so appreciate anything you or anyone else advises.
I’ve not really looked into it that much so I’m hoping it’s fairly straight forward. Would you say it’s better to collect all samples and take home to test or pick a dry day and do them on the spot sort of thing?
Our fields are pretty small so would probably only need to test each half. I’m guessing you would still take and test individual test spots rather than numerous and bulk and mix like lab tests?

 

[Cab-over Pete]

In, say, a 10 acre field, reasonably flat with no obvious features, I would end up with at least 4 if not 6 bags of soil, numbered and plotted on a rough hand drawn map. In each bag there will be 4-5 soil cores.

Then sample back at the customers place so they can see the results, unless they are happy for me to do it and send the results.

Then it’s easy to use a map site like Daft Logic to see satellite images and be able to work out areas and acreages. These satellite images make it very easy to spot different areas of soil type. If you’re lucky some of the websites will show your fields when you’ve ploughed or cultivated them.

Unless there are a few wet days forecast I like to test all the samples I’ve taken in the same day. I don’t like to have samples sweating in a plastic bag for days. If I can’t do them same day I line them all up with open tops.

Try and sample with the soil in its most natural state, moist and friable with a growing crop.

 

[Mounty]

I’ll take all the advice I can get so appreciate anything you or anyone else advises.
I’ve not really looked into it that much so I’m hoping it’s fairly straight forward. Would you say it’s better to collect all samples and take home to test or pick a dry day and do them on the spot sort of thing?
Our fields are pretty small so would probably only need to test each half. I’m guessing you would still take and test individual test spots rather than numerous and bulk and mix like lab tests?

I do it differently to Pete. Using the kits with test tubes, plan where you want to sample in a field. Usually at least 1 per 2 acres but you can do as many as you want.
Dig your hole and take the test there and then. Move on to the next one leaving the previous to settle out and so on for the next few. Once you've completed the field, the samples should have cleared. Check them against the colour chart and plot your readings onto a sketch or map. Changes in soil types will often show up by the changes in readings. The attached map is a good example of varying soil types. New farm to us and farmer said most of the low areas we found were either lighter or black soils and some were wetter areas. Went to this job totally blind as we were just given a postcode to meet at.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

Is that done whilst driving a quad over the land @Mounty with GPS and sampling equipment with you?

A very good and efficient way of doing the job. I can’t justify all that expense so usually walk the land. When I did buy a bike to make a start on doing it with GPS, it was stolen within 3 weeks!

 

[Mounty]

Mostly all done with a quad these days fitted with all the sampling equipment. We can do it with GPS but charge for that service. We are working on approx 100m intervals. Using the digital odometer on the quad we know when we've done 100m. The map above was done without GPS.
Perhaps you should think about another quad bike Pete? We sampled 2000ha last week with quads, with 3000ha planned for this week, just don't have the time (or energy) to walk anymore.

P.S. Pete, All our quads have trackers on so I can see where they are 24/7. I can track the route on a field and obviously if they do get stolen, then hopefully recover it.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

It’s definitely something I should think about. I’m at a crossroads where I’m way too busy myself but can’t justify a full time employee.

I can get help field walking and I’ve got help spreading, but those two jobs are seldom found to be done by one person.

 

[case 5140]

How much is it to have a full GPS soil sample done?, had a look on S&S web site but no prices....have always done my own but like the idea of GPS spreading.Am takeing a farm on in wales on the lleyn, any one know who to use round their?

 

[Mounty]

Depends on the amount to do but anywhere between £2 and £4/ha. Pretty certain S&S can do this and are probably nearest to you.

 

[Fenwick]

Surely you would have made sure the ph is right first before sowing , if low you would correct ph first before spending more on a reseed .
Perhaps we should start a lower grass seed inputs thread as well as there seems to be alot of people happy to help us part with our hard earned cash.
In another book I read the author said the best grass leys he seen was on farms that spread little & often

which book was that?

 

[Treg]

which book was that?

To be honest I can't remember something like Modern Grassland Management, my ex girlfriend use to work for the local Ag college so handy for borrowing books from their library

 

[Fenwick]

@Treg

did you try your 15kgs of lime this year?

 

[Treg]

@Treg

did you try your 15kgs of lime this year?

Yes , visually I would say it works, fields that have been spread look greener and healthier but the dirty water could have done that and we've had a good growing period lately.
Saying that I've spread poorest fields first and gone for the poorest patches of fields and there is now a big difference in clover leaf size, which I think is a good indication of improving pH. ( pour 4 bags at a time in to dirty water pits , doesn't mix easy but noticeably broke up the crust & visually different colour , working out about 12.5kgs / 5000L spread per acre)
I have also been mixing mixed lime in the manure pile while composting it ( 25kg / 100 t of manure & use mixed lime in calving shed so will be interesting to see over time how it works.
Definitely something I'm going to continue doing

 

[Cab-over Pete]

So you’ve tried several things all at once then?

 

[Treg]

So you’ve tried several things all at once then?

Yes that was the point, low rates of lime mixed with either dirty water or FYM.
It's to stimulate soil bacteria to change pH.
It's a proven fact that soil pH changes through out the year as the soil bacteria gets a chance to work , so by giving it a stimulating it can change the pH by a higher percentage.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

It's a shame then that muck lowers pH , maybe adding lime to the muck helps , but then why not just spread lime and muck in the field

I was brought up with "Don't manure and lime at the same time" for the reason that Lime will react with Nitrogen [in the manure] to produce Ammonia (gas) so the Nitrogen will be lost .

 

[Treg]

It's a shame then that muck lowers pH , maybe adding lime to the muck helps , but then why not just spread lime and muck in the field

I was brought up with "Don't manure and lime at the same time" for the reason that Lime will react with Nitrogen [in the manure] to produce Ammonia (gas) so the Nitrogen will be lost .

I think that's partly the point, your neutralising what your putting on?
I mixed with manure each time I turned it when composting, it's made fantastic compost .