Lime

[Brisel]

As I understand it free calcium carbonate will buffer against pH change so change is seldom economic. But perhaps adding organic matter will provide at least some alternative routes for nutrients to reach plants? Respiration of microbes in the organic matter is said to reduce, in the chemical sense, iron oxides to soluble forms accessible to plants. Also organic acids from decomposing organic matter if I recall rightly can 'chelate' nutrient molecules protecting them against fixing in the alkaline soil but available for plant uptake. Know any sheep keepers?

I understood most of that! Yes, I'm trying to build soil organic matter with strip till, cover crops, sheep & bought in manures like sewage cake. The high pH means I'm constantly applying phosphate as well as K, Mg & trace elements to crops. K is mostly applied as Fibrophos - high P or high K grades depending on what nutirents I building using variable rate application.

The principles you talk about will improve most soils but a bad pH will mess up most soil biology, not just the chemistry.

Phosphate levels; I can't apply sewage cake due to a borehole in the SE corner & I'm still playing catch up on the other land at the eatsern end. High indices are where there have been 2 doses of sewage cake in the 4 years since it was last sampled. Applications are normally 1 year in 3.

Potassium;

Magnesium; This is being fixed with kieserite though there is some Mg in Fibrophos, FYM, compost & sewage

 

[Henarar]

Been chucking AN based fertilisers on for decades. The soil is basically calcium carbonate, so will need something substantial to reduce pH.

not working the soil can help, lime don't go uphill [hence why its not a good idea to plough it down] have spread lime round the top of a lime quarry
but if you are on ground that is all chalk it won't make much odds

 

[corkman2013]

Now then @Cab-over Pete - what do you suggest I do about keeping the lime status up on this?
View attachment 504840
I've treated the low pH patches after retesting the areas highlighted by SOYL.

How do I lower the pH to the point of making nutrients more available on my chalk??

Don't think you'll have much problems with clubroom.

 

[Brisel]

Don't think you'll have much problems with clubroom.

Actually, I have had clubroot recently. Just not on the chalk.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

The only place the rellies need lime is on the clay caps

 

[Zebbedee]

Now then @Cab-over Pete - what do you suggest I do about keeping the lime status up on this?
View attachment 504840
I've treated the low pH patches after retesting the areas highlighted by SOYL.

How do I lower the pH to the point of making nutrients more available on my chalk??

How about gypsum? Something tells me it lowers ph?????

 

[Hilly]

Who do you use @Hilly ?? (If you don't mind me asking)

TSS

Mr Walker, you know Neil ?

 

[Brisel]

How about gypsum? Something tells me it lowers ph?????

Eh? I don't think it alters pH much but I've got plenty of calcium already! Mag lime would be a better bet on the clay caps where I do get occasional acidity problems.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Been chucking AN based fertilisers on for decades. The soil is basically calcium carbonate, so will need something substantial to reduce pH.

What would happen if you used AS all the time? Or half AS? - too much S?

And personally I'd be just tempted to place a bit of P and K with the planting each time (small bit) to help with a bit of availability and check how bad for P and K it is with a follow up tissue test. You can't change your parent material

 

[SilliamWhale]

Isn't sewage sludge high Ph? I thought it was lime treated in some way

 

[Brisel]

Isn't sewage sludge high Ph? I thought it was lime treated in some way

Lime stabilised cake is, but around here it is mostly digestate. They are phasing out the lime treated stuff because it smells much worse, though it is drier and stacks better thanks to being desiccated by the quicklime. The NV of digestate is minimal & not much better for the lime product.

 

[Hilly]

I need calcium lime here mag levels are always very high, makes it that little bit more expensive.

 

[GTB]

Would grazing cattle or applying slurry help at all?

 

[ThatsSomeSheep]

Mr Walker, you know Neil ?

Neil and Greegor?

TSS

 

[Hilly]

Neil and Greegor?

TSS

Yes, good spreaders for hill land with driven axle and not too big.

 

[Bald Rick]

Always use Buxton lime as it has a high neutralizing value and good crush and at £32/t spread is well worth it.
Using a lot of slurry topped up with AN (& occasionally Double Top) means we are acidifying the soil quicker than we'd like so top up all the land on a 4 year rotation.

 

[carpenter1]

Any one know the quality of the lime that comes out of Ashburton? And what the prices are like?

 

[Hilly]

Always use Buxton lime as it has a high neutralizing value and good crush and at £32/t spread is well worth it.
Using a lot of slurry topped up with AN (& occasionally Double Top) means we are acidifying the soil quicker than we'd like so top up all the land on a 4 year rotation.

£32 is a lot, whats An ? and wahts double top ?

 

[Bald Rick]

£32 is a lot, whats An ? and wahts double top ?

£32 delivered on to the Island & spread by contractor is cheap(ish) & Buxton is the best you can get IMO comparing NV & the amount that passes through a 120 micron sieve. Sure you can buy cheaper .. but it wont last as long or work as well and we have no need of mag lime as our indices are OK

AN - Ammonium Nitrate (will acidify soil)
Double Top - basically AN with added sulphur which will also acidify

 

[Hilly]

£32 delivered on to the Island & spread by contractor is cheap(ish) & Buxton is the best you can get IMO comparing NV & the amount that passes through a 120 micron sieve. Sure you can buy cheaper .. but it wont last as long or work as well and we have no need of mag lime as our indices are OK

AN - Ammonium Nitrate (will acidify soil)
Double Top - basically AN with added sulphur which will also acidify

Oh i see, i didnt know Anglesey was an Island ! ive never been, ive been to buxton tho Is Buxton Lime calcium lime or mag ? i had some black calcium lime once but cant remember where it was fre.