Liming Grassland ?

Boohoo

Member
Location
Newtownabbey
Wouldn't touch burnt lime if you paid me. Just buy the stuff nearest to home to keep the haulage cheap. Get it, tip it and spread it. There is no discussion to be had, it really is that simple.
If only it was that simple! I need 14 tons spread over 11 acres of grass that is currently waterlogged. I don't have anywhere to tip lime, unless I empty a bay of the machinery shed so the contractor will have to bring it in the spreader. So I'll actually get 11 or 12 tons in a trailed spreader that probably weighs 4 ton. So say 15 ton, if he turns up when I'm there I could probably guide him around it towards the end of April but it'll be May and there'll be a foot of grass before I could let him loose on his own.
 

Bogweevil

Member
If only it was that simple! I need 14 tons spread over 11 acres of grass that is currently waterlogged. I don't have anywhere to tip lime, unless I empty a bay of the machinery shed so the contractor will have to bring it in the spreader. So I'll actually get 11 or 12 tons in a trailed spreader that probably weighs 4 ton. So say 15 ton, if he turns up when I'm there I could probably guide him around it towards the end of April but it'll be May and there'll be a foot of grass before I could let him loose on his own.

Lime takes months to have a significant effect, even longer if not incorporated, so no great urgency?

Agricultural Liming Association - brilliant website.
 

Boohoo

Member
Location
Newtownabbey
Lime takes months to have a significant effect, even longer if not incorporated, so no great urgency?

Agricultural Liming Association - brilliant website.
The sooner it goes on the sooner it starts working. Spring or autumn are the only options for us and they're usually both too wet. We missed a chance in autumn 2016 and haven't had a chance since.
 

Boohoo

Member
Location
Newtownabbey
Just had a thought, dangerous I know, but bear with me....
We're only 8 miles from the quarry that produces granulated lime. If they would sell it in bulk and I collected it, it would then be a bit more reasonable than buying it from a merchant in 600kg bags and I wouldn't be looking for stirring kits etc for the wagtail. Question is how much would I need to apply? Obviously the same amount as ground limestone, but over how many years?
 
Just had a thought, dangerous I know, but bear with me....
We're only 8 miles from the quarry that produces granulated lime. If they would sell it in bulk and I collected it, it would then be a bit more reasonable than buying it from a merchant in 600kg bags and I wouldn't be looking for stirring kits etc for the wagtail. Question is how much would I need to apply? Obviously the same amount as ground limestone, but over how many years?
Is there a reason you want granulated lime instead of ground limestone?
 
Out of curiosity - has anyone else had this- I ordered a wagon of lime last year that was to come from the Tarmac quarry at grassington and they sent a spec sheet which didnt meet the legal definition of ag lime - over 40% of particles over 3mm......
They claimed a 52% nv but the sample I got tested out at 18% because of the poor size....
The girl on the phone was adamant it was "ag lime" but from what I saw it really was a 6mm-down grit sand.

The issue for me is my soil is high MG so I need calcium lime which means it needs to come from quite far away.
Ill be spreading it behind a small 1.5tonne spreader on very rough landslip rocky terrain so Cant get a contractor in - the land is like a battlefield with holes and craters (despite this its PK indexes 3 and 4 as its free draiing so always been outwintered on with additional feed).

my question is - do the larger bits eventually react or are bits at 3mm+ just bulk crap? Aslo why do big companies like tarmac insist on selling something as "ag lime" when it doesnt meet the legally defined spec as ag lime?
Id be willing to give it a go if i knew the 3mm bits would break down eventually - IE within 5 years, as this is a B**stard of a block of land and once its limed id like a decade or two away from trying to touch it again. Its at PH 4.9-5 at the mo so really does need doing and with high indexs its a must to get something out of the land.
 
To an extent it depends on how hard the parent rock is. I'm not an expert on this, but limestone varies hugely across the country. As a general guide, if the quarry produces anything like tarmac or concrete with the rock they have then it will be very hard stuff. If they don't, it's likely to be because its a softer rock.

If it's soft rock then some larger particles will be able to break down in the soil over time, but they don't want to be too big. Anything bigger than a grain of wheat will be useless and you really don't want to see many of those, maybe two or three in a handful. The larger particles, whilst being acted upon by the moisture and properties of the soil, will only be broken down over a short time before a layer or crust forms around them. This can be seen in areas where lots of old houses are built from the local soft limestones. The buildings and individual blocks can be seen to have a flaky crust on them. Its this crust that stops them from melting away entirely over the years! Big lumps of lime in the ground will do the same and then become useless.

It really annoys me when somebody is tempted by a cheap price for lime after a salesman has told them there is plenty of fine dust in it. Whilst that can't be argued against, usually they do contain lots of fine dust, its the rest of the sample thats lumpy and useless. The same salesman has told the farmer that these bits will give the product longevity, which is complete nonsense. In reality it will be a very poor performing product.

It's getting difficult to find many sources of excellent lime as time goes on. Derbyshire used to be the place to get excellent lime, but most of it is nothing like as good as it used to be. The sales departments will say it still passes the regs, but, as you have found @Coximus , whilst that could be the case, its still not as good as it could be. Also there are the odd occasions when something has gone wrong in the quarry. I have had lime delivered with more than its share of larger particles, in which case I'm on the phone to them straight away. It's most often that a screen has a small hole in it somewhere, damaged by a rock, or a less than fussy shovel driver hasn't cleaned his bucket out before loading. Mistakes happen and I've never had a case where they didn't offer to put it right in some way. Unfortunately some of the quarry staff just don't get what we need in the ag job, and why would they? They're drivers and operators, not scientists or farmers, so they just don't see the small hole in a screen as a problem, but my suppliers are always good at sorting problems if they arise. Maybe you just got a rogue load? Before you order any more, ask them to send you a sample and get that analysed.

All that said, if you have a natural pH of 4.9-5.0 I think your hope of not doing it again for a decade or two could be a tad optimistic! If land gets that low around here, even a superb quality lime may need two dressings over following years to get it right, then I would recommend a retest in 5 years.

As is often the case, you get what you pay for, although in the lime business you have to factor in haulage. A superb quality lime can come cheap if you happen to be near the quarry, conversely a poor quality lime can be very expensive if you are a long way from it.
 
thanks - thats the issue Im facing the samples dont even meet the regs but the office staff only make a flippant comment that they used to sell loads but its out of fashion - The best stuff comes from some chalk quarries but they wont sell direct and only through spreaders, of which none want to faff with my undulating land and one couldnt even get access to it.. only one said he'd give it ago if I was having the rest of the place done - but thats all been done a few back and is all around 6.3-6.5 so is fine for now.

Life!
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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