Limousin

[Walterp]

To add what in particular?

Conformation, weight, milk.

 

[M-J-G]

Conformation, weight, milk.

I had considered a Hereford Bull to cross with the Sims when we got our SH.

My vet keeps a few, they are nice cows who are rearing good calves. A lad I've sold Sim bulls to in the past is cris-crossing Sim and Her and has some really good females comming through.

I wouldn't rule a good one out!!!

 

[GenuineRisk]

What several of the posts sum up above is a bit like folk who do the lottery - they'd like a large sum of money for shelling out a few quid with no effort whatsoever involved, no? Whatever continental breed we're talking about, I think it's probably fair to say they involve a bit more hands on stockmanship than most native UK & Irish breeds - ie they need management. It suits a fair number of farmers but, like WalterP and a few others, that's not how they want to be spending their time, hence the never-ending quest for the elusive magic combination cross that will be totally easy care, will involve virtually no human touch except for tagging and maybe dehorning and the annual bTb test. The temperament will also be calm and quiet, every heifer/cow will calve in totally unassisted with vigorous calves who get up and suck within nano seconds. I think we've covered this topic in virtually every guise you can think of over the past few years and all it does is underline the irrefutable fact that we are all different. What one farmer does without a second thought, be it pull a calf off or run a bunch in a few more times to blood test, bTb test etc than his neighbour another will look across the fence and think him or her off their heads for doing the extra work. The only common denominator is that we're all chasing to maximise that cheque/BACS transfer at the end of the process. It's a good thing to try and find that magic cross, mind but precisely because it is a crossbreed means that getting uniformity will be very difficult for all the important factors. I am sure this is where stabiliser fans will come wading in but in my view, you still have several generations to go before uniformity and good temperament become fixed.

When a commercial giant like Tesco starts a trend such as their current Hereford sired beef premium with promises of a minimum contract length, because they want a 'brand' to promote to the consumer, I am afraid I am just sceptical.... All they want is an increased margin of profit on that beef line for a defined period of time. If something else comes along - such as new research lauding the fact, for example, that lean beef contains a particular beneficial enzyme that more marbled meat doesn't (hypothetical, folks, not actual fact for illustrative purposes only!), then we all know the Hereford scheme will be dumped, another promoted because all supermarkets need a new angle every so often as price will always be the greatest influence and folk start buying a new product, stay with it for a few months and then will drop it for something else cheaper as they become indifferent to the original reason for purchase.

We all know that the real secret to decent beef is the length of time it's hung and how it's butchered - taste tests at shows the length and breadth of the country consistently have proven that as Breed winners change regularly and have plenty of times included all the continentals as well.

And if being successful at showing dogs is a qualifier to underline the validity of my post, then hey, I qualify on that score, too have bred several Show Champions here and overseas, made up others, field trialled a couple, winning Novice stakes back in the day, won the bitch ticket at Crufts, imported new bloodlines from the US, gave up showing in 2000 to concentrate on the workload here but regularly work my dogs on our shoot every season. And I'm female....!

 

[chipsngravy]

Why anyone would what to sign up with tesco I dont know. Put them though the ring and get the buyers bidding against each other. Round here Angus steers being doing over £2.30 LW.

The less they get on contract the better for us all. Wake up, put them through the ring.

 

[M-J-G]

Why anyone would what to sign up with tesco I dont know. Put them though the ring and get the buyers bidding against each other. Round here Angus steers being doing over £2.30 LW.

The less they get on contract the better for us all. Wake up, put them through the ring.

+1 Contracts will make the beef and Lamb sectors the same as the pig, poultry and Dairy.

 

[Baling Hay]

Why anyone would what to sign up with tesco I dont know. Put them though the ring and get the buyers bidding against each other. Round here Angus steers being doing over £2.30 LW.

The less they get on contract the better for us all. Wake up, put them through the ring.

Farmers like to put themselves in handcuffs.

 

[CharcoalWally]

They are nice cattle, the ones I think I've seen thru' the ring anyway.

It doesn't take away from the fact that Simmental calves can be hard to calve, slow to suck and fast to die.

Have only ever had one calf in my 30 plus years of doing this for a living that completely refused to suck a cow.It was a Limousin.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

A lot of sense in what you say GR, which comes back to the old saying 'there's more variation within a breed than between the breeds.

Just to highlight this with respect to the lim and sim breeds being discussed here, I have 2 neighbours who use a Sim for their heifers because they are particularly easy calving. 1 was particularly concerned when 1 of his heifers got in with his neighbour's 'blooming great lim bull' - and it prooved to be a valid concern.
The other neighbour has a lim bull but wouldn't use it on his heifers.

So I guess you pick a breed (or combination of breeds) that you like and suits your system and work on improving them to the best of your ability. This necessitates a closed herd of course.

The lim has many strengths and I wouldn't knock it, indeed I run a lim bull currently. But there is no denying they have more than their fair share of temperament issues. But all breeds can so it comes back to your management /culling policies when you do encounter issues.

 

[simgirl]

All our milkers used to calve to simmy bulls & we did have to help a few ( mainly to suit us i think, don't like waiting once we see feet) . If we needed the vets ( bad presentation) they would panic when they saw the big front feet. But once the head was out the rest would follow easily & not get stuck on the bum like some breeds. Now we are calving sim & simx cows we very rarely help, even the heifers.And the calves are always keen or very easy to help.

 

[CharcoalWally]

Have always calved my heifers to the Simm. bull,and I dont ever remember losing one at calving.Yeah I watch them really closely-I,d watch any heifer calving to any breed closely.Smooth hips and smooth shoulders help a calf get out safe.

 

[Cowgirl]

What several of the posts sum up above is a bit like folk who do the lottery - they'd like a large sum of money for shelling out a few quid with no effort whatsoever involved, no? Whatever continental breed we're talking about, I think it's probably fair to say they involve a bit more hands on stockmanship than most native UK & Irish breeds - ie they need management. It suits a fair number of farmers but, like WalterP and a few others, that's not how they want to be spending their time, hence the never-ending quest for the elusive magic combination cross that will be totally easy care, will involve virtually no human touch except for tagging and maybe dehorning and the annual bTb test. The temperament will also be calm and quiet, every heifer/cow will calve in totally unassisted with vigorous calves who get up and suck within nano seconds. I think we've covered this topic in virtually every guise you can think of over the past few years and all it does is underline the irrefutable fact that we are all different. What one farmer does without a second thought, be it pull a calf off or run a bunch in a few more times to blood test, bTb test etc than his neighbour another will look across the fence and think him or her off their heads for doing the extra work. The only common denominator is that we're all chasing to maximise that cheque/BACS transfer at the end of the process. It's a good thing to try and find that magic cross, mind but precisely because it is a crossbreed means that getting uniformity will be very difficult for all the important factors. I am sure this is where stabiliser fans will come wading in but in my view, you still have several generations to go before uniformity and good temperament become fixed.

When a commercial giant like Tesco starts a trend such as their current Hereford sired beef premium with promises of a minimum contract length, because they want a 'brand' to promote to the consumer, I am afraid I am just sceptical.... All they want is an increased margin of profit on that beef line for a defined period of time. If something else comes along - such as new research lauding the fact, for example, that lean beef contains a particular beneficial enzyme that more marbled meat doesn't (hypothetical, folks, not actual fact for illustrative purposes only!), then we all know the Hereford scheme will be dumped, another promoted because all supermarkets need a new angle every so often as price will always be the greatest influence and folk start buying a new product, stay with it for a few months and then will drop it for something else cheaper as they become indifferent to the original reason for purchase.

We all know that the real secret to decent beef is the length of time it's hung and how it's butchered - taste tests at shows the length and breadth of the country consistently have proven that as Breed winners change regularly and have plenty of times included all the continentals as well.

And if being successful at showing dogs is a qualifier to underline the validity of my post, then hey, I qualify on that score, too have bred several Show Champions here and overseas, made up others, field trialled a couple, winning Novice stakes back in the day, won the bitch ticket at Crufts, imported new bloodlines from the US, gave up showing in 2000 to concentrate on the workload here but regularly work my dogs on our shoot every season. And I'm female....!

You make great points in this post but please don't misunderstand my dog breeding analogy - I just wanted to say that dog breeders have taken a lot of stick in the media for producing extreme conformation faults which have led to problems with soundness and reproduction - I just feel that some cattle breeds (including the Limousin) have individuals which to my eyes have fairly extreme conformation also.

 

[GenuineRisk]

You make great points in this post but please don't misunderstand my dog breeding analogy - I just wanted to say that dog breeders have taken a lot of stick in the media for producing extreme conformation faults which have led to problems with soundness and reproduction - I just feel that some cattle breeds (including the Limousin) have individuals which to my eyes have fairly extreme conformation also.

Sorry, didn't mean to take it out of context! I too feel that responsible dog breeders could teach any livestock breeder a thing or too when it comes to codes of conduct! Also when it comes to judging, too. Some of the rules KC registered judges have to abide by could be incorporated into cattle showing with a great deal of benefit.

But - and this really is a huge 'but' - the big difference between breeding dogs and breeding cattle is one is for pleasure almost universally and t'other is for profit. Yes, there are working dogs, of course, but the huge majority of dogs in this country are there for their owner's pleasure - they become family members - it's a different ball game to that of breeding cattle which are commercial products that need to maximise output gain against the input costs.

My chosen canine breed for the past thirty odd years is one that looks no different in the show ring than it does on the working field and is in no way extreme in any form or fashion. Can't say the same for my chosen cattle breed, I guess as it it is at the extreme end but the breeding codes for both are exactly the same, ie sound, healthy animals that do the job they are designed to do. With great temperament being mandatory.

 

[DB67]

Why anyone would what to sign up with tesco I dont know. Put them though the ring and get the buyers bidding against each other. Round here Angus steers being doing over £2.30 LW.

The less they get on contract the better for us all. Wake up, put them through the ring.

Yep.

What will happen if no cattle go though the live ring?

What will happen to the store trade?

I understand people want best price for their cattle and obviously at the moment most people are sending them deadweight but surely, if they have any brain cells they should know that without a market they end up being told what they are getting.

Markets must take what...10 percent of fat cattle a week? Very worrying.

 

[CharcoalWally]

They are nice cattle, the ones I think I've seen thru' the ring anyway.

It doesn't take away from the fact that Simmental calves can be hard to calve, slow to suck and fast to die.

Is this from experience or just hearsay?

Experience.

There you are @Walterp you silly billy. I knew you'd told us about your personal experiences of Simmental.calving's. You must have forgotten you dopey old dope!!!

Anyway , if you're having problems with Simmental calving's , for Goodness sake just ask myself and @martin gribbon for advice. We also know about Simmentals and are here to help. Never mind these crappy stockspeople you told us about before Xmas. They clearly don't know what they're doing!!!!

Hang on a minute , you have personal experience of the breed , don't you.............

 

[Walterp]

There you are @Walterp you silly billy. I knew you'd told us about your personal experiences of Simmental.calving's. You must have forgotten you dopey old dope!!!

Anyway , if you're having problems with Simmental calving's , for Goodness sake just ask myself and @martin gribbon for advice. We also know about Simmentals and are here to help. Never mind these crappy stockspeople you told us about before Xmas. They clearly don't know what they're doing!!!!

Hang on a minute , you have personal experience of the breed , don't you.............

Blimey!

You are a nasty piece of work, aren't you?

Anyway, back to the facts: we've been keeping beef cattle on this place for 20 years, taking over an earlier-established beef herd that ran with the dairy herd that was set up on 1959. During that time we've used Belgian Blue, Simmental, North Devon, Hereford, Angus and, of course, Limousin genetics. We've got a primarily Limousin herd these days, with a bunch of Simmental dairy crosses as second calvers and as in calf heifers.

Simmentals are fairly rare in West Wales, and one reason is that they were poor sellers in the fat ring 'cos they were bone-heavy. They have their good points, of course, but I can only think of three herds in the entire region.

 

[CharcoalWally]

Bit sensitive , aren't you. Bit of an over-reaction.

Also ruder.

 

[M-J-G]

Bit sensitive , aren't you. Bit of an over-reaction.

Also ruder.

I think that's an old dog getting a taste of it's own sh1te!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CharcoalWally]

Yeah. Hello Mr Pot , meet Mr Kettle!!!

 

[NZDan]

I agree with you Martin, however one thing where the Sim falls down with us is the size of the cow. They are just too big, we can't stock them as hard in the yards or at grass due to the bigger frame of the Sim. We are in the county of the £17000/acre land price, rents heading to £300 (if you can find the land) and 6 month grass lets at £150- 200 without SFP, which I suppose begs the question 'should I not just sell all the cows and bank a rent cheque?' but that is a different thread.

In terms of Kg's weaned per cow exposed to the bull (this takes in fertility, milking and maternal ability and calf growth) I don't think you can beat a Limousin - I am sure you will disagree!

Why not look further afield for SIMM semen, I bet there's a smaller framed SIMM bull some where that ticks all the boxes.

 

[M-J-G]

Why not look further afield for SIMM semen, I bet there's a smaller framed SIMM bull some where that ticks all the boxes.

Lots of small framed Sim bulls in Ireland, but they are loosing milk.