Livestock deaths on UK farms

[Princess Pooper]

Time this thread was shut down !!

why?

 

[Katarina]

Do we really need to continue this thread??

Don't think we need to discuss this further.

With agriculture being constantly persecuted and blamed for everything under the sun, is this of any benefit to any of us to keep adding to this.

 

[Hfd Cattle]

why?

For the reasons Jendon gave

 

[Princess Pooper]

I host hundreds of people visiting my farm for a whole range of learning topics, many of them are geography pupils (A level) or students and have never felt I need to hide anything. What I do like is the opportunity to discuss and explain things to people who have often never had that opportunity to hear it from 'the horses mouth'. I have a group of Human Geography students coming this week from Leicester Uni.

I think we've furnished the OP with enough information to be going on with, all this is established factual stuff that could be ascertained with more research but if you've not familiar with the topic then sometimes it's difficult to see how things work. Whilst I fully understand the paranoia felt by many, as the whole world seems against us at present, we are doing nothing wrong and everything is born to die, by one means or another! Don't humans die too, despite massive investment in healthcare ?

 

[ShooTa]

@jendan - its not like a small amount of googling would not have given that info anyway..

 

[Cowabunga]

Thanks! It's been quite difficult to find relevant information but the report you attached looks really helpful. I've seen the gov page about fallen stock before, but wondered what the reality was like in practice. It mentions that fallen stock must be collected, but I wondered whether this was difficult to arrange? It's interesting reading about it on paper, but as with many things, I suspect the reality is trickier than the guidelines suggest. Thanks again for your help.

All it takes is a one minute phone call. Usually same day service.

 

[Cowabunga]

Utter bullpoo.

Far more than 5% of UK farmers WILL have seen a badger.

To claim otherwise is a complete nonsense!

Sounds like you are a badger hugger old shep!! well come down to the SW and in every parish you will able to go into a farmyard and sell cattle being loaded up to be slaughtered/ shot on farm because of badgers!

They are like a plague of locusts around these parts at night. Make a hell of a mess on grass fields and verges, looking for insects and worms when larger food, like hedgehogs and ground nesting birds are in short supply, which is most of the time nowadays because of, guess what.
You can't travel many miles on A and B roads without seeing badger roadkill either, which is an indication of their high population density.

 

[Werzle]

@jendan - its not like a small amount of googling would not have given that info anyway..

Of course it would, tell all these do-gooders and anti farmers to f##k right off.

 

[jendan]

I'm sorry if I have offended you but any browsing of the many posts on here both in the livestock and forage forum, the dairy forum, the NADIS information service would also show what diseases and ailments animals die from - what is there to hide? Have you never looked at a list of human ailments? I'm sorry but the natural world has lots of ways that animals can die, whether feral animals or domesticated and there's no escaping the fact. Why should farmed animals not die on farm and why should we try and hide the fact? Many of the animals that die will have received veterinary attention and some will have been humanely put down as well. Sure we should all be doing what we can to prevent it, - for example, we vaccinate to prevent several of the diseases I mentioned, but not every one does at present.

You have not offended me in any way.I said your post was very good.But you are missing the point in reference to the OP,who has not replied to your post yet.

 

[Old Shep]

They are like a plague of locusts around these parts at night. Make a hell of a mess on grass fields and verges, looking for insects and worms when larger food, like hedgehogs and ground nesting birds are in short supply, which is most of the time nowadays because of, guess what.
You can't travel many miles on A and B roads without seeing badger roadkill either, which is an indication of their high population density.

Surprisingly not all UK farming takes place in SW England and Wales.

I didn't make any claims that forced slaughter of TB infected beasts doesnt cause much distress to those affected.

However not all farmers are dairy or beef farmers, and not all dairy or beef farming takes place in high density badger areas. Not that you'd know it by the media.

 

[Old Shep]

They are like a plague of locusts around these parts at night. Make a hell of a mess on grass fields and verges, looking for insects and worms when larger food, like hedgehogs and ground nesting birds are in short supply, which is most of the time nowadays because of, guess what.
You can't travel many miles on A and B roads without seeing badger roadkill either, which is an indication of their high population density.

Surprisingly not all UK farming takes place in SW England and Wales.

I didn't make any claims that forced slaughter of TB infected beasts doesnt cause much distress to those affected.

However not all farmers are dairy or beef farmers, and not all dairy or beef farming takes place in high density badger areas. Not that you'd know it by the media.

 

[gone up the hill]

Surprisingly not all UK farming takes place in SW England and Wales.

I didn't make any claims that forced slaughter of TB infected beasts doesnt cause much distress to those affected.

However not all farmers are dairy or beef farmers, and not all dairy or beef farming takes place in high density badger areas. Not that you'd know it by the media.

And you may be surprised to know that even arable farmers have problems with badgers! not uncommon for a combine to fall in a large badger set and cannot be retrieved until the paperwork has been sorted out many weeks later, I know of one farm where they had to hire in a combine because theirs sank into a badger set beside the main road/ footpath and they couldn't dig it out until they had built up a new set and got the badgers to move into it!

Also every farmer in a large part of the country like the SW/ wales/ North East etc will have seen a badger so your claim that not even 5% of farmers have seen a badger is complete BS!

 

[Nithsdale]

Surprisingly not all UK farming takes place in SW England and Wales.

I didn't make any claims that forced slaughter of TB infected beasts doesnt cause much distress to those affected.

However not all farmers are dairy or beef farmers, and not all dairy or beef farming takes place in high density badger areas. Not that you'd know it by the media.

I'm in Scotland, officially TB-'free'.

We are not overrun with them up here, but most low and upland farms will have 1 set, or 1 set running on 2 farms due to being on/near the marching boundaries...


But trust me, the little barstewards are still here.

Only the highest/hardest farms are clear, and even then there will be the odd set found

 

[Cowabunga]

Surprisingly not all UK farming takes place in SW England and Wales.

I didn't make any claims that forced slaughter of TB infected beasts doesnt cause much distress to those affected.

However not all farmers are dairy or beef farmers, and not all dairy or beef farming takes place in high density badger areas. Not that you'd know it by the media.

I've checked and I didn't mention forced slaughter of cattle. TB and badgers are spreading, so just because your area is clean so far, it doesn't mean it will remain badger free or, more importantly and rather distinctly, TB free.
If you have no susceptible animals, what the f**k are you commenting about it for anyhow. Both are major issues over vast swathes of England and Wales.

 

[Old Shep]

Ok I will try to explain myself. There was a post with an opinion that badgers were the biggest threat to uk farming, and another post that climate change was the biggest threat. My post was supposed to express my opinion that politics was the biggest threat to uk farming. Badgers have taken up a lot of media and political time. Although yes they cause problems in affected areas I dont believe any one of you on here really believe they are the BIGGEST threat to your livelihood? Ok my sentence of " I'd say 95 percent etc.." has angered those of you with badger problems, but it started with the words "I'd say" and I said it. I didnt say "I have irrefutable proof that 95 per cent etc....". Yes it was probably widely exaggerated to stress a point. My point was that Joe public through the media and politics believe badgers to be THE major threat to UK farming. Just as Joe public believe that eating less meat will save the planet. The bad PR that farming is getting is the biggest threat to the industry. Sorry that some of you only read the word badger.....Hell if you treat one who is totally in support of farming like this, how do you expect public support?

 

[Nithsdale]

Ok I will try to explain myself. There was a post with an opinion that badgers were the biggest threat to uk farming, and another post that climate change was the biggest threat. My post was supposed to express my opinion that politics was the biggest threat to uk farming. Badgers have taken up a lot of media and political time. Although yes they cause problems in affected areas I dont believe any one of you on here really believe they are the BIGGEST threat to your livelihood? Ok my sentence of " I'd say 95 percent etc.." has angered those of you with badger problems, but it started with the words "I'd say" and I said it. I didnt say "I have irrefutable proof that 95 per cent etc....". Yes it was probably widely exaggerated to stress a point. My point was that Joe public through the media and politics believe badgers to be THE major threat to UK farming. Just as Joe public believe that eating less meat will save the planet. The bad PR that farming is getting is the biggest threat to the industry. Sorry that some of you only read the word badger.....Hell if you treat one who is totally in support of farming like this, how do you expect public support?

You originally put your point across very badly...

 

[Old Shep]

You originally put your point across very badly...

Quite probably! But the response just shows that due to media pressure we are forced to being either a badger lover or badger hater. It's worked just as much on farmers as it has on joe public.

 

[Muddyroads]

Your post is very good and tells everything how it is.Unfortuneately,with a few tweaks here and there,it is a vegans,peta activist, or extinction rebellions wet dream.A comprehensive list of all the ills that livestock can get.We dont know anything of the OP.How does this information help a Geography student? I can remember when i first joined the Forum and a controversial issue was raised by a new member.Carole soon warned me and advised.I wish she was still on the Forum.

I too thought it was a very good and comprehensive post, you can tell it comes from someone who is an experienced and effective ambassador for our industry. I agree, it could be used by the vegan brigade, but it can just as easily be used by us. For example, none of the anti livestock farming groups are going to promote mass slaughter of farm animals, they would like to see them “given their freedom”. If they were successful at achieving this, the animals wouldn’t live some sort of idyllic Wind in the Willows life, but would mostly succumb to slow and painful deaths from one or more of the causes listed by Princess Pooper. It can be argued that her list explains why we should be allowed to continue caring for our animals, not be forced to stop.

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I've checked and I didn't mention forced slaughter of cattle. TB and badgers are spreading, so just because your area is clean so far, it doesn't mean it will remain badger free or, more importantly and rather distinctly, TB free.
If you have no susceptible animals, what the fudge are you commenting about it for anyhow. Both are major issues over vast swathes of England and Wales.

When the gas pipeline went through Wales, someone in Animal health (who came out during a TB breakdown) said, he could see the TB spreading with the pipeline, guessing this is because of the pipeline digging work causing badgers to move and therefore spread TB. Vet also told me, he has seen the TB move throughout the area since he moved here, so I think that unless we do something to control excess badger numbers TB will continue to move over the rest of the country. I don't think the urban majority will worry until people start dying of TB, and not just poor homeless people as it is now catching it.

 

[Will Wilson]

Perhaps a good place to look would be the AHDB? https://ahdb.org.uk/