Local planning authorities huge disparity between decisions

Teejay

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Romney Marsh
Both applications taken on by the same planning agent using the same planning arguments? Every application is different; we have applied for schemes almost identical to those that have been refused by others but with better justification had them approved.
Both applications were for knockdown and rebuild, I used an agricultural need as further justification despite no ag tie on house to be demolished.
The developers up the road just put in for a 4 bed mansion to replace the remains of old cottage.
Locally several houses have been granted planning for 2 bed annexes (bungalows) in the garden and over 100 houses granted permission on green field sites next to the local town despite the sewage system not being able to cope.
At the moment it seems to be one rule for developers and another for locals.
 
Both applications were for knockdown and rebuild, I used an agricultural need as further justification despite no ag tie on house to be demolished.
The developers up the road just put in for a 4 bed mansion to replace the remains of old cottage.
Locally several houses have been granted planning for 2 bed annexes (bungalows) in the garden and over 100 houses granted permission on green field sites next to the local town despite the sewage system not being able to cope.
At the moment it seems to be one rule for developers and another for locals.
Without knowing your application I can't say why it was refused, did you use a planning consultant?
Where your plans to relocate the house or what's the replacement house much larger than the original?
What was the reason for refusal?
If you're replacing one house for another why did the agricultural need need to be addressed? Were you advised to? Agricultural need is only generally required when you are looking to add to the housing stock within the countryside - and what you are saying you are replacing one house with another so you are not adding so therefore the principle is already established.
 

Teejay

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Romney Marsh
I didn't use a planning consultant as I had done mine 30 years ago.
House was to be on same spot roughly the same footprint but with an upstairs.
You name it, he thought it was not originally a house, no post code, no cycle shed etc.
As the plot is in the corner of the farm yard, I thought the agricultural need might help, no problems with parish council and as we have farmed here for over 120 years we do know the history of the site.
All of the reasons for refusal have been answered and we reapplied in November 21. Still waiting for a result but things went very quiet when I pointed out the developers had been granted planning for an identical site.
 
I didn't use a planning consultant as I had done mine 30 years ago.
House was to be on same spot roughly the same footprint but with an upstairs.
You name it, he thought it was not originally a house, no post code, no cycle shed etc.
As the plot is in the corner of the farm yard, I thought the agricultural need might help, no problems with parish council and as we have farmed here for over 120 years we do know the history of the site.
All of the reasons for refusal have been answered and we reapplied in November 21. Still waiting for a result but things went very quiet when I pointed out the developers had been granted planning for an identical site.
If you have resubmitted and addressed the reasons for refusal I hope you get a better result this time - it is a good tactic to have
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
One suspects that the reason developers often get more of a 'result' out of the planning system than private individuals do is that planners know that developers have planning professionals retained, and will appeal if the planners deviate from planning law or guidance in any way. And probably have the funds to do so. Whereas private individuals may a) not know they are being given spurious reasons for refusal and b) not have the money to spray around on planning appeals either. So planners feel they can play a bit fast and loose with private individual applicants in a way they feel constrained about when dealing with developer applications.

Thats why I think it always pays to have a planning consultant do applications for you, it shows you have professionals on your side, and you have the resources to employ them. It keeps the planners honest. It shouldn't be like that, but that seems to be the way the system works.
 

robs1

Member
One suspects that the reason developers often get more of a 'result' out of the planning system than private individuals do is that planners know that developers have planning professionals retained, and will appeal if the planners deviate from planning law or guidance in any way. And probably have the funds to do so. Whereas private individuals may a) not know they are being given spurious reasons for refusal and b) not have the money to spray around on planning appeals either. So planners feel they can play a bit fast and loose with private individual applicants in a way they feel constrained about when dealing with developer applications.

Thats why I think it always pays to have a planning consultant do applications for you, it shows you have professionals on your side, and you have the resources to employ them. It keeps the planners honest. It shouldn't be like that, but that seems to be the way the system works.
That's exactly what they do, I saw it first hand in our local planning office while waiting to see a planning officer and ear wigging others discussions, the officers were very unhelpful to two local residents that wanted some advice on applications, developer walks in and was immediately offered coffee, none of us were, and he was told what the council would allow and where,
 
That's exactly what they do, I saw it first hand in our local planning office while waiting to see a planning officer and ear wigging others discussions, the officers were very unhelpful to two local residents that wanted some advice on applications, developer walks in and was immediately offered coffee, none of us were, and he was told what the council would allow and where,
Was that a paid pre-application meeting? I have had the same looks when I have walked straight in through the free planning clinic to a back office and the carpet rolled out but when you pay ££££ for the meeting the level of service is different.
 

Jrp221

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cornwall
Last year we put in app for a kitchen extension on our Grade 2 listed cottage, after 9 months the planner spoke to our daughter who is a rural surveyor and submitted the plans and told her they will refuse it on the listed building officers advice. He says it is too big, house opposite also G2 listed did exactly the same 6 yrs ago, their extension was 42% of original floor ours is 32%. They are asking us to resubmit and have offered us a free pre app. Not sure how that works?
 
Last year we put in app for a kitchen extension on our Grade 2 listed cottage, after 9 months the planner spoke to our daughter who is a rural surveyor and submitted the plans and told her they will refuse it on the listed building officers advice. He says it is too big, house opposite also G2 listed did exactly the same 6 yrs ago, their extension was 42% of original floor ours is 32%. They are asking us to resubmit and have offered us a free pre app. Not sure how that works?
So the pre-app will be an informal discussion between yourselves the planning officer and conservation officer understand what they would likely to accept. Once an agreement is reached then providing you reapply within 12 months of your previous refusal you are eligible for a free go.
 

Jrp221

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cornwall
So the pre-app will be an informal discussion between yourselves the planning officer and conservation officer understand what they would likely to accept. Once an agreement is reached then providing you reapply within 12 months of your previous refusal you are eligible for a free go.
They have ‘withdrawn’ our application, Parish support it which is frustrating, doubly frustrating when they passed a very similar, bigger extension on the other side of the road to us.
 
They have ‘withdrawn’ our application, Parish support it which is frustrating, doubly frustrating when they passed a very similar, bigger extension on the other side of the road to us.
Every property is different, without knowing the two properties I couldn't say whether they are assessing them differently but when it comes to listed buildings it is not always about bulk and mass - design, style and original fabric are bigger concerns
 

robs1

Member
Was that a paid pre-application meeting? I have had the same looks when I have walked straight in through the free planning clinic to a back office and the carpet rolled out but when you pay ££££ for the meeting the level of service is different.
No it was a good few years ago before they started that system. Obviously the cororate planner had an appointment but it was the way the other council one was so unhelpful to a couple trying to do a change to allow an elderly parent to move in. As you said before locals with no experience dont know the rules that the planning game is played by
 

robs1

Member
They have ‘withdrawn’ our application, Parish support it which is frustrating, doubly frustrating when they passed a very similar, bigger extension on the other side of the road to us.

You should asked for a bigger one than you wanted then did what they wanted and asked for smaller but what you wanted in the first place, the people that bought my farmhouse when I got divorced wanted some skylights so they could convert the roof, they wanted four, asked for six following advice from their consultant, the listed building officer said four would be ok so everyone happy.
The problem I've found with these conservation officers is they all have different ideas on what they think is acceptable
 

Jrp221

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Cornwall
You should asked for a bigger one than you wanted then did what they wanted and asked for smaller but what you wanted in the first place, the people that bought my farmhouse when I got divorced wanted some skylights so they could convert the roof, they wanted four, asked for six following advice from their consultant, the listed building officer said four would be ok so everyone happy.
The problem I've found with these conservation officers is they all have different ideas on what they think is acceptable
We went for 20’ x 20’ with twin pitch roof, there is a window specifically mentioned in the listing that then sits in the valley of the new roof. Very sympathetic plans drawn up, or so we thought. Now waiting for the guy to do some sketches that we can take back to them.
 

som farmer

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
somerset
we used a 'pre' visit, chap walked around the farmstead, before narrowing the 'best' place, for the bungalow, his leanings were towards the fantastic site, where l didn't think there was any chance, but decided, in the end, on the logical site, we had suggested.
The planning officer 'overseeing' the project, was most unhelpful, to the point of working against it, even when passed, by going above her, she raised 'problems', the last one, wrong orientation, from the datum point, that didn't get far. But l am absolutely certain, she was in 'league' with our rich neighbours wife, but what can you do ?
 

Forever Fendt

Member
Location
Derbyshire
One suspects that the reason developers often get more of a 'result' out of the planning system than private individuals do is that planners know that developers have planning professionals retained, and will appeal if the planners deviate from planning law or guidance in any way. And probably have the funds to do so. Whereas private individuals may a) not know they are being given spurious reasons for refusal and b) not have the money to spray around on planning appeals either. So planners feel they can play a bit fast and loose with private individual applicants in a way they feel constrained about when dealing with developer applications.

Thats why I think it always pays to have a planning consultant do applications for you, it shows you have professionals on your side, and you have the resources to employ them. It keeps the planners honest. It shouldn't be like that, but that seems to be the way the system works.
100%
 
A developer I know always goes in ~50% over his target and then negotiates down, mostly he gets somewhere between the two. Gives the council bods a warm cosy feeling that they've achieved something for their pay! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
That is a common tactic with pre-app's; it is much harder to do with full applications as only minor changes are generally allowed once an application has been submitted
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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