Low fpd

Fergieman

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Northumberland
Arla don't punish for FPD, you just get less of a bonus as the constituents are lower

Each tankerload is tested for extraneous water (low FPD) examined prior to unloading at the dairy factory. If the milk does not pass the quality criteria, the milk is disposed or remarketed. The member whose milk caused the incident is liable to pay for the milk value loss and compensate Arla for any costs.

A separate invoice is issued for these costs and the amount deducted over a 3-month period from the settlement payment.




It does happen, A farmer had a leaking plate cooler one night after a hard frost, milk ticket was approx 2000 lts up next day which he thought the cows had milked well untill the phone call that the milk tanker was rejected.
 
Each tankerload is tested for extraneous water (low FPD) examined prior to unloading at the dairy factory. If the milk does not pass the quality criteria, the milk is disposed or remarketed. The member whose milk caused the incident is liable to pay for the milk value loss and compensate Arla for any costs.

A separate invoice is issued for these costs and the amount deducted over a 3-month period from the settlement payment.




It does happen, A farmer had a leaking plate cooler one night after a hard frost, milk ticket was approx 2000 lts up next day which he thought the cows had milked well untill the phone call that the milk tanker was rejected.
You'd have to be a fair chopper to not suspect somthing was up if your milk jumped 2k liters. Unless farmer was milking 1000 cows!
 

Slowcow

Member
We had trouble with our fpd a couple years ago, last two springs have been OK, it might be something to do with having no grass :rolleyes:

But the other thing I've done differently the last two winters is supplementing minerals mixed in the silage, this spring they've all had a bolus around turnout and fingers crossed its still OK!
Its just a theory though!
 

Jdunn55

Member
We had trouble with our fpd a couple years ago, last two springs have been OK, it might be something to do with having no grass :rolleyes:

But the other thing I've done differently the last two winters is supplementing minerals mixed in the silage, this spring they've all had a bolus around turnout and fingers crossed its still OK!
Its just a theory though!
Trouble with things like that is theres no way to guarantee they were what caused the issue to be rectified if you know what I mean. What bolus did you use? I've got a load of potions on order to try and sort it out
 

Slowcow

Member
Trouble with things like that is theres no way to guarantee they were what caused the issue to be rectified if you know what I mean. What bolus did you use? I've got a load of potions on order to try and sort it out
Your right there's no guarantee, I'm convinced its worth supplementing though, we're organic so I used the downland bolus from Perkins ( its agrimin really).
Have seen a improvement it SCC too, maybe just a coincidence, we are traditionally short of cobalt any way and were giving them iodine in the water, bolusing cows isn't much fun but you know its in there!
 

TheRanger

Member
Location
SW Scotland
Each tankerload is tested for extraneous water (low FPD) examined prior to unloading at the dairy factory. If the milk does not pass the quality criteria, the milk is disposed or remarketed. The member whose milk caused the incident is liable to pay for the milk value loss and compensate Arla for any costs.

A separate invoice is issued for these costs and the amount deducted over a 3-month period from the settlement payment.




It does happen, A farmer had a leaking plate cooler one night after a hard frost, milk ticket was approx 2000 lts up next day which he thought the cows had milked well untill the phone call that the milk tanker was rejected.

That’s a slightly different senario than @Jdunn55 to be fair.

What is the penalty for an Arla manufacturing supplier who hovers around the 504-509 mark, without the tanker load ever failing?

Some processors will not pay you for any collections below 509, even though the tanker doesn’t fail, and the milk is processed as normal!!
 

MartinM

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cornwall
Yes, and he had the same issues and tried all sorts last year.
was this only when the cows were walking any distance or at all times ?
Same problems with same milk buyer , they are probably thinking there’s more to it than cows drinking before milking.
 
Each tankerload is tested for extraneous water (low FPD) examined prior to unloading at the dairy factory. If the milk does not pass the quality criteria, the milk is disposed or remarketed. The member whose milk caused the incident is liable to pay for the milk value loss and compensate Arla for any costs.

A separate invoice is issued for these costs and the amount deducted over a 3-month period from the settlement payment.




It does happen, A farmer had a leaking plate cooler one night after a hard frost, milk ticket was approx 2000 lts up next day which he thought the cows had milked well untill the phone call that the milk tanker was rejected.
yes been there done that . currently paying off for a lost load of milk that arla deemed a taint from us had ruined funny thou as someone on the load had a cell count of 4400 and arla said that was not the cause !
 

Tirglas

Member
Location
West wales
I shouldnt have to worry about cooling as I'm only milking 55 so not much milk and the bulk tank will cope with that. I dont want to fight with them either and am not going to start shouting and swearing at them as like you have said that'll get me no where. Just want to explain what I've found and see what they do with that information. I'll leave the plate cooler off after tonight's collection then
What size tank do you have? Do you intend to milk many more there? Asking because neighbour as he went out of milk had very very odd test results going down to the last 30 or 40 cows as he dispersed his herd with 9000litre tank.

Buyer said something along the lines small volumes in a big tank often happens. Do block calvers have similar issues at the start and end lactation?
 
What size tank do you have? Do you intend to milk many more there? Asking because neighbour as he went out of milk had very very odd test results going down to the last 30 or 40 cows as he dispersed his herd with 9000litre tank.

Buyer said something along the lines small volumes in a big tank often happens. Do block calvers have similar issues at the start and end lactation?
The last pick up when the tank has less than 5% of its capacity has been an issue for the last two season
 

Martyn

Member
Location
South west
@Jdunn55 Make you feel better iv had an email come through tonight with three results come through on it so 6 days worth. My previous reading to this was 516. My last three pick up have been 508, 506,509 😥 we get one chance in 6 month period and then 10ppl. So guessing I'm screwed. Adding that ontop of the fact I only have allocation for about 12 days of production our milk cheque will have to be topped up by selling some stores or ewes & lambs. Iv got large troughs in every paddock could easily cope with twice our herd size, troughs were cleaned out about six weeks ago. Rock salts available in mass in our tmr troughs and cows recieving mineral. We get it a few time every spring and never manage to work out why. Don't knock yourself, it's all ment to test us. I had 16 out of 110 empty last week so just will be pleased to hopefully turn a page and start off again.
 

Durry cows

Member
Location
Derbyshire
Our ureas have been at an all time low sub 10 this past fortnight, never struggled with fpd since a new parlour with air purge though. Butterfats have crashed though :confused:
 
Location
East Mids
What size tank do you have? Do you intend to milk many more there? Asking because neighbour as he went out of milk had very very odd test results going down to the last 30 or 40 cows as he dispersed his herd with 9000litre tank.

Buyer said something along the lines small volumes in a big tank often happens. Do block calvers have similar issues at the start and end lactation?
I don't think the issue is tank size when volumes are low, it is that the amount of water that is normally left in the plant at the end of the wash cycle, is too much relative to the milk volume. Not due to any problem with plate coolers just the bit that is always there. At our lowest production we are about 400l/day so 800l EOD collection (with obviously 4 plant washes) and that is normally when we see FPD problems. As it is in July then sometimes the heat stress issues add to it (this is when we have taken direct samples from individual cows and found low FPDs for some).

We have a Westfalia Surge so it does do a proper purge so it can't be much. Can't remember exactly how Prince Pooper does it but he has to manually over-ride the idiot proof 'can't milk without the pipe in the tank' control and we have to chuck away about the 2-3 milk pump flushes to be sure that we are safe until volumes increase again. It's a right pain in the arse. When we are up at current litres (3800 EOD) it is never an issue.

However, our refrigeration engineer says he often has comments that when volumes are very low relative to the size of tank there can be problems with milk partially freezing which I am sure does funny things to sample results.
 

Agrispeed

Member
Location
Cornwall
I don't think the issue is tank size when volumes are low, it is that the amount of water that is normally left in the plant at the end of the wash cycle, is too much relative to the milk volume. Not due to any problem with plate coolers just the bit that is always there. At our lowest production we are about 400l/day so 800l EOD collection (with obviously 4 plant washes) and that is normally when we see FPD problems. As it is in July then sometimes the heat stress issues add to it (this is when we have taken direct samples from individual cows and found low FPDs for some).

We have a Westfalia Surge so it does do a proper purge so it can't be much. Can't remember exactly how Prince Pooper does it but he has to manually over-ride the idiot proof 'can't milk without the pipe in the tank' control and we have to chuck away about the 2-3 milk pump flushes to be sure that we are safe until volumes increase again. It's a right pain in the arse. When we are up at current litres (3800 EOD) it is never an issue.

However, our refrigeration engineer says he often has comments that when volumes are very low relative to the size of tank there can be problems with milk partially freezing which I am sure does funny things to sample results.

My milk buyer reckoned it was a problem with freezing and thawing milk. FPD would often be a problem for me at the start and end of season, along with ice in the tank.

@Jdunn55 Make you feel better iv had an email come through tonight with three results come through on it so 6 days worth. My previous reading to this was 516. My last three pick up have been 508, 506,509 😥 we get one chance in 6 month period and then 10ppl. So guessing I'm screwed. Adding that ontop of the fact I only have allocation for about 12 days of production our milk cheque will have to be topped up by selling some stores or ewes & lambs. Iv got large troughs in every paddock could easily cope with twice our herd size, troughs were cleaned out about six weeks ago. Rock salts available in mass in our tmr troughs and cows recieving mineral. We get it a few time every spring and never manage to work out why. Don't knock yourself, it's all ment to test us. I had 16 out of 110 empty last week so just will be pleased to hopefully turn a page and start off again.

Speak to Roger, OMSCo are normally pretty understanding. I never had a warning or deduction for FPD, they seem lenient as long as you can show willing and don't take the pee.
 

Dead Rabbits

Member
Location
'Merica
I have to run an entire wash vat of rinse water into the tank to get a reaction to the freeze test. ( employee accident) So 140 gallons into 6000. Otherwise it never varies throughout the year. I think the test being used in your country is faulty.

Farm I grew up on we ran the rinse water into the tank for 30 years. Only 45 gallons or so but was never an issue.
 

Yosemite Sam

Member
Location
Wiltshire
I have been reading this thread with interest. It can’t be that hard to work out Jdunn55, if you take a step back and think about it. You worked on this farm for Friesianfan before you took the farm on in your own right. These cows have always been on this farm. If there wasn’t an issue with the FPD before using the same fields, water troughs and cows walking the same distance, it has to be something that either you are doing slightly differently, like diet which could be making them more thirsty, or the plant wants looking at. Good luck with getting to the bottom of it.
 

jimmer

Member
Location
East Devon
Oooh I love a bit of devils advocate

While I whole heartedly agree that FPD values are a law unto themselves sometimes, they aren't the only milk quality test that is manipulable by factors including those in the farmers control

There are plenty of www's out there struggling to keep butterfat levels in the legal brackets, they are constantly changing diets, after all its straight from the cow so it's milk, right?
 
Location
East Mids
Oooh I love a bit of devils advocate

While I whole heartedly agree that FPD values are a law unto themselves sometimes, they aren't the only milk quality test that is manipulable by factors including those in the farmers control

There are plenty of www's out there struggling to keep butterfat levels in the legal brackets, they are constantly changing diets, after all its straight from the cow so it's milk, right?
I think the reason that fpd's raise such emotion is that there is a general feeling, if you fail, that you are being accused of watering down your milk. That is they way some of the dairies approach it - certainly ours does, that it must be something we are doing 'wrong', that something must be broken, or leaking, that someone left a pipe in the tank (impossible in our parlour). Being paid 10p/litre is very demoralising and as I pointed out, something that our dairy then reports to RT who then send you a snotty email saying make sure you complete your complaints file and WE WILL BE CHECKING UP ON YOU.

Factors affecting butterfat content are widely understood. Factors affecting fpds are much less well understood. AHDB have update their guidance again to include reference to energy and protein levels in the diet rather than just water intakes and sodium levels, but it is very woolly. It is all to do with internal osmosis in the cow and it is not as straightforward as some posters on here (and some dairies) try to pretend.
 

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