Low Line Cattle

[NZDan]

To me, that's just selecting for poor growth rather than efficiency. The clever thing to do would be teasing out the cattle with the best yearling growth compared to mature size i.e. curve benders. Not easy to do but worth pursuing! I'm all for moderate mature size in a cow but there's a happy medium, surely?

The two lines were purely expermental, trangie research farm had many selection lines of both sheep and cattle, they could select on single traits and see what effect it had on other traits, there were weaning weight hi and lo lines, puberty hi and lo, milk hi and lo. In the sheep had many many selection lines.
The Squaremeater cattle breeders select for increased yearling weight but within yearling height limits. Getting fast growing early maturing animals that remain at a small/moderate height.

 

[Cowgirl]

My understanding was that miniature Herefords were bred from a traditional Hereford herd that went against the trend to produce bigger and bigger cattle?

That’s correct. They were developed in North America, selectively bred to be small, but are completely unrelated to our Original Population Herefords here. The small number in UK were produced from Canadian embryos. I just wanted to be sure that there is no confusion. And before someone suggests it, they are not dwarfs either.

 

[Samcowman]

The two lines were purely expermental, trangie research farm had many selection lines of both sheep and cattle, they could select on single traits and see what effect it had on other traits, there were weaning weight hi and lo lines, puberty hi and lo, milk hi and lo. In the sheep had many many selection lines.
The Squaremeater cattle breeders select for increased yearling weight but within yearling height limits. Getting fast growing early maturing animals that remain at a small/moderate height.

Never heard of Square Meaters. Thanks for bringing them up. ??

 

[NZDan]

That’s correct. They were developed in North America, selectively bred to be small, but are completely unrelated to our Original Population Herefords here. The small number in UK were produced from Canadian embryos. I just wanted to be sure that there is no confusion. And before someone suggests it, they are not dwarfs either.

Yes that is my understanding as well. The original Mini HH herd was of british breeding though?? They wanted to breed a more traditional type of Hereford.
Interestingly there was some US selection lines developed using Herefords and the also had hi and lo yearling weight selection lines. The hi yearling weight selection line was heavily inbred, .39 IBC, and also based on related animals, two sons of Advance Domino 13, and was known as Line one, and is still a famous US Hereford strain to this day. The bovine genome sequence was done on a line bred cow.

 

[Woolless]

Yes that is my understanding as well. The original Mini HH herd was of british breeding though?? They wanted to breed a more traditional type of Hereford.
Interestingly there was some US selection lines developed using Herefords and the also had hi and lo yearling weight selection lines. The hi yearling weight selection line was heavily inbred, .39 IBC, and also based on related animals, two sons of Advance Domino 13, and was known as Line one, and is still a famous US Hereford strain to this day. The bovine genome sequence was done on a line bred cow.

I think Line One is the basis of the Ervie Hereford herd near Stranraer? They sell 40-50 bulls at an on-farm sale each spring.

 

[Cowgirl]

There is a DNA study being carried out in the Hereford breed at the moment looking at the different types. It would be interesting to obtain DNA from the minis to see if they are similar to the original Anxiety 4th linebred Herefords from USA which came from Britain in the 1800s.
The cattle at Ervie are descendants of the Miles City Line 1s but modified by Holdens and others so although horned, not truly Line 1. The Hereford breed was used to sequence the bovine genome but the American Hereford DNA profile is very different from the UK Original Population. Fascinating stuff.

 

[Cowgirl]

So I was wondering how similar the DNA profile of the Lowline cattle is to the Native Angus and the modern Angus? I don’t know if this has been studied at all, but it might be relevant for meat samples etc?

 

[NZDan]

There is a DNA study being carried out in the Hereford breed at the moment looking at the different types. It would be interesting to obtain DNA from the minis to see if they are similar to the original Anxiety 4th linebred Herefords from USA which came from Britain in the 1800s.
The cattle at Ervie are descendants of the Miles City Line 1s but modified by Holdens and others so although horned, not truly Line 1. The Hereford breed was used to sequence the bovine genome but the American Hereford DNA profile is very different from the UK Original Population. Fascinating stuff.

Same in many breeds, the DNA of NZ Angus and Oz Angus are different to the US even though there is widespread use of US Bulls in both other countries.
Interesting that there Ervie cattle are based on Line one cattle, the distinctive feature of the Line 1s was there extreme growth and large adult size, they are a significant reason the average US Hereford cow is larger than the average cow of any other breed.

 

[Cowgirl]

@NZDan The differences in the Hereford DNA came to light when the Food Standard Agency in UK started testing DNA from meat samples after the horse meat scandal, because as luck would have it, there were meat samples from Traditional as well as modern Herefords tested. For a while it was feared that Traditional breeders would not be able to call their meat “Hereford”, because the standard Hereford profile they used was American and it was very different. I believe no Angus samples were used in the tests because the Angus society wouldn’t allow it, and the Hereford breed was the only one they had problems identifying. Under Zootech regulations each breed is supposed to have a DNA profile registered so I wonder how the Angus breeders are getting round this?

 

[NZDan]

@NZDan The differences in the Hereford DNA came to light when the Food Standard Agency in UK started testing DNA from meat samples after the horse meat scandal, because as luck would have it, there were meat samples from Traditional as well as modern Herefords tested. For a while it was feared that Traditional breeders would not be able to call their meat “Hereford”, because the standard Hereford profile they used was American and it was very different. I believe no Angus samples were used in the tests because the Angus society wouldn’t allow it, and the Hereford breed was the only one they had problems identifying. Under Zootech regulations each breed is supposed to have a DNA profile registered so I wonder how the Angus breeders are getting round this?

It just goes to show that adding bureaucracy to a system makes it more complicated not less complicated.

 

[Cowcalf]

I've limited cattle experience.

But applied to sheep I cannot disagree strongly enough.

I have in my mind a cow that will produce a carcass of 600-650kg at 20-24 months. I'll happily use a beef sire, but I think I want a cow no bigger than 500kg.

as much chance of winning lottery as 600 k carcase out of 500 k cow

 

[beefandsleep]

I think he meant 650kg live weight which is still asking a bit from a 500kg cow really.

 

[Danllan]

Any further info' about Lowlines in the UK from anyone? (i.e. have / are the prices approaching sanity?)

 

[Dan@JF]

Any further info' about Lowlines in the UK from anyone? (i.e. have / are the prices approaching sanity?)

I have nearly 40 breeding cows and a couple of bulls. I think they are great and get a great deal of pleasure farming them...... but it depends what you are looking for. They are VERY easy to work with (temperament), never had to pull a calf, get up and go and mother well, live on next to nothing and prefer to live outside all year without making a mess. They compliment my mob grazing system well alongside the sheep. The meat is as good as any I've had but you have to have a direct sales/butcher market. Had new forest eye in a higher percentage than I would like but that isn't necessarily attributed to the beasts. Used a bull over some Jerseys and like the calves, but not used on anything else. Some dairy men seem to like them on heifers. They will never stand next to a big commercial beast and look in the same league, but then they are not meant to.

 

[Danllan]

I have nearly 40 breeding cows and a couple of bulls. I think they are great and get a great deal of pleasure farming them...... but it depends what you are looking for. They are VERY easy to work with (temperament), never had to pull a calf, get up and go and mother well, live on next to nothing and prefer to live outside all year without making a mess. They compliment my mob grazing system well alongside the sheep. The meat is as good as any I've had but you have to have a direct sales/butcher market. Had new forest eye in a higher percentage than I would like but that isn't necessarily attributed to the beasts. Used a bull over some Jerseys and like the calves, but not used on anything else. Some dairy men seem to like them on heifers. They will never stand next to a big commercial beast and look in the same league, but then they are not meant to.

Thanks for that. We sell boxed or half beasts now mostly and would be happy to do that solely, and are working toward that. Whereabouts are you, do you sell heifers and, if so, at what price?

 

[MDL POWERUP]

Any further info' about Lowlines in the UK from anyone? (i.e. have / are the prices approaching sanity?)

I asked and was told heifers were 4k and there was a two year wait. So not really.

 

[Danllan]

I asked and was told heifers were 4k and there was a two year wait. So not really.

Same as my enquiry a few years ago, hmm... a bit of time and inflation and we're laughing.

 

[Dan@JF]

I asked and was told heifers were 4k and there was a two year wait. So not really.

From where?

 

[MDL POWERUP]

From where?

The main guy importing and breeding the genetics, he exports a lot to Europe. I liked the idea but young steers were £600 and they can't stack up even if selling in boxes at that. A dexter may be inferior but they'll be bought for £150 at 10 - 12 months old, will finish off grass the next summer and the meat will total over a grand cut up. So thought that's the better option until they come down in price.

 

[Danllan]

Hang on...

You wrote:

From where?

And got an answer...


I wrote:

...Whereabouts are you, do you sell heifers and, if so, at what price?

And got no reply...