Low N Malting Barley.

Farmer Fin

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Aberdeenshire
Thats the trouble we can lay off risk using futures contracts but you still want no obligation to supply, can't have it both ways. If I sell wheat for may 21 I have to supply, ok if I'm short it might be wheat harvested in August.
Not sure what the answer is. At a meeting last year and they asked people to come up with alternatives and nothing really seemed to stack up. Majority of people wanted futures. I think the 50/50 was after an agreement with the NFU?
 

Colin

Member
Location
Perthshire
Not sure what the answer is. At a meeting last year and they asked people to come up with alternatives and nothing really seemed to stack up. Majority of people wanted futures. I think the 50/50 was after an agreement with the NFU?
Ideally they want a good price with no comeback if quality is poor, the other side wants it cheap cheap cheap
 

Chae1

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
Thats the trouble we can lay off risk using futures contracts but you still want no obligation to supply, can't have it both ways. If I sell wheat for may 21 I have to supply, ok if I'm short it might be wheat harvested in August.
Was min £165/t contracts 2019. Did a fair bit on them.
 

KennyO

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Angus
Putting in more wheat.
We haven't had a problem with intake but still have two loads to go. Last two extra loads will go in feed heap. No point sending it at £130 with a risk of a claim.
One of the reasons we joined a now failed co-op was because they (wrongly) claimed we would be in a stronger position with the maltsters.

Might stick in Laureate in spring but throw lots of N at it. If they are short it will be taken if not more to sell as feed.
 

Chae1

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
Not sure what the answer is. At a meeting last year and they asked people to come up with alternatives and nothing really seemed to stack up. Majority of people wanted futures. I think the 50/50 was after an agreement with the NFU?
Frontier were doing 80:20 contracts. Doubtful the nfu had anything to do with it.
 

robbie

Member
BASIS
Reading this thread has made me even more positive about my decision to tell my merchant and the maltsers they deal with to stick the lot up there whatsits!!!!!

One can tell the success or failure of the seasons malting barley by the quantities about and from what has been offered on contract and what the spot price is without ever needing to have a sample tested.

I consider the whole malting job to be another great farming con just like serviced agronomy.

For me more wheat after beet and any barley will be feed, some barley land this year I think will go into wheat. I can grow it cheaply and at £50 ton difference a poor wheat will still be similar to a decent barley crop ( not that I grow poor wheat)
 

Pebd99

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
They really need to do proper trials on the best course of action for growing and harvesting a crop to avoid skinning. Or for the breeders to give us a reliable variety that is great quality for malting and a reasonable yield, obviously it would be better with a high yield but that’s how the race to the bottom starts.
wheats futures are quite good let’s you have a certain amount of control over the price you’ll get or at least let’s you think that. The spot price crap is a sheer insult. We will take your barley and we will give you something for it not a lot but something.
Im doubling my oats area and what barley il plant will be getting another 30 units of n. Malting barley can go poke it for now.
 

Frodo

Member
Location
Scotland (east)
Thats the trouble we can lay off risk using futures contracts but you still want no obligation to supply, can't have it both ways. If I sell wheat for may 21 I have to supply, ok if I'm short it might be wheat harvested in August.
I guess it’s two different risks. Price and quality. Linking to futures mitigates one. The quality is harder. Should really be an insurance market, but I imagine it is far to niche.

Does niggle that me screwing up the quality has increased my merchants profit £30 - 40 per tonne. I ll be doing well to match it
 

Chae1

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
Thing is it's the weather that's screwing up the quality. Which is completely out with our control. In many cases the agronomy is done by same company buying the barley. They sell the seed, fertiliser, chemicals are involved with it from planting to harvest. Then reject it or send it away and they'll decide what they'll give you for it a few weeks later. They expect unblinkered loyalty throughout the growing season from the farmer, dangling the carrot that they'll buy there barley. Then if germination a few % too low or skinnings too high will simply reject it.

The margin for error is far too tight. On another thread tonight I learnt seed crops only need to be 86% yet maltsters specify 98% minimum.

Also assessing skinning levels is purely based on the individuals opinion looking at the sample. What formal training and qualifications do these people have?
 
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Pebd99

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
The carrot is definitely not big enough this year.
I tried some calcium onto 10ha as a trial and it’s was the best sample that I’ve had, normally 1.7-1.8n and 12-15% skins. It was 1.53 and 5% skins so there must be something to be said for nutrition helping the skinning issue. There’s plenty other things that get blamed like not ripe enough and over ripe. There’s a professor at the university of Dundee I think that’s looking into the reasons why skinning is happening and how to avert it.

There must be something wrong with the sampling of the barley as surely it would show up in the test sample if there’s an issue but loading it onto a lorry magically raises the skinning by a failing amount of %.

It’s a farce just now and in dire need of a kick in the arse before more folk start to lose interest and money in it.
 

Farmer Fin

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Aberdeenshire
We will still be growing it next year mind. It makes up the vast bulk of our acreage. We get OSR in after carrots but on a normal year would be chancing our luck after spring barley. 1 block of land would work but a few others wouldn’t. Post OSR or potatoes is our entry to wheat and even then there are plenty years where the potatoes come out too late for wheat and they are in to spring barley. Winter barley would give an early entry for OSR but I can’t see it stacking up either. For me the maths on WB,OSR, WW, SB look the same as SBx4. Feed SB isn’t exactly great either.

I also hate this selling stuff with out a price. However they have the power and as long as there are a ton of famers who are desperate for shed space then I can’t see it changing.

Let’s face it the combination of corona and weather have screwed it this year.

On a separate note I see Simpson’s are planning a new store and maltings near Elgin.
 
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Happy

Member
Location
Scotland
Wouldn‘t say it’s been a complete disaster this year. Yes £130 spot element is not great but you could fix the £20 over futures element at over £175t for large chunks of the past year so average still right side of £150.

It could have been a lot worse given the increase in plantings with added Corona.

Skinnings is a racket though. Seems funny all the high skinnings seem to be through Frontier, Lindsay‘s and Inglis who supply Diageo.

None of mine goes to them and highest I’ve had has been 3%.
Wonder what levels they’d be at if it did:unsure:
It’s just a visual assessment after all so easy for them to adjust to suit intake needs.
 

Chae1

Member
Location
Aberdeenshire
I'd a load rejected at 90% germination. Took it home tipped in our shed. Sampled the 29t pile sent sample back to same store and they made it 98%?

Fortunately I have had no issues with skinnings at all this year.
 

Andrew1983

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Black Isle
I need straw for sucklers, so need to grow cereals of some kind. The maltings job is a pain in the arse. They make Larry G look like a saint. I’m tempted to finish a lot more cattle and Just push barley for yield. I had upped my area this year, will be going back down next year.
 

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