Making an entrance.

[Bill the Bass]

Our first gig we opened with ‘Burning love’ by Elvis then we sort of settled into things like ‘Take it easy’ or ‘Bad moon rising’ in subsequent gigs. Once open with ‘Dirty Deeds’ by AC/DC but that didn’t work....

Oh hang on, I completely miss read the title of the thread.

 

[Hjcarter]

You need to WIDEN (not move) the gateway to accommodate the size of today’s machinery. Add a new 16ft (or larger if you can find one) gate next to the existing gate (throwover hoop to fasten) and job’s done. I suspect you’re not supposed to widen gateways onto roads by 16ft at a time, but meh- you weren’t to know that!

Does it involve ripping out a bit of hedge or a tree or anything? That’s when you’re liable to get complaints. If just a fence then less likely!

Get yer point but unfortunately it involves pulling hedge, crossing brook, etc.

I suspect if you just get on and do it and officialdom comes after you it could cost a fortune in ripping it up and doing a motorway grade job. A bit of negotiations first might get a thumbs up for a more pragmatic approach....

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Gateway is on a 'c' road which is well travelled (although nit busy) so would be seen / reported in an instant.

I'm thinking way to go is
A) council - put a pd in.
B) ea - new crossing before the old one caves in and blocks the Brook
C) highways - visibility - better visibility from new entrance.

If you're referring to the council for a lawful development certificate for the gate it is likely that highways will be consulted by the council so that will save you the the hassle of (c).

 

[Steevo]

Gateway is on a 'c' road which is well travelled (although nit busy) so would be seen / reported in an instant.

I'm thinking way to go is
A) council - put a pd in.
B) ea - new crossing before the old one caves in and blocks the Brook
C) highways - visibility - better visibility from new entrance.

If you're referring to the council for a lawful development certificate for the gate it is likely that highways will be consulted by the council so that will save you the the hassle of (c).

Taking the post above - the OP states "put a pd in".

As I understand it Agricultural PD rights would not be much use here being within 25m of a classified road, is this correct?

@George from SJM Planning states "lawful development certificate" which as I understand it is a different kettle of fish.


Personally I'd just get on with it.....the rules do support the widening of a gateway without any problems. A quick Google would find the regulations related I'm sure.

 

[George from SJM Planning]

Taking the post above - the OP states "put a pd in".

As I understand it Agricultural PD rights would not be much use here being within 25m of a classified road, is this correct?

@George from SJM Planning states "lawful development certificate" which as I understand it is a different kettle of fish.


Personally I'd just get on with it.....the rules do support the widening of a gateway without any problems. A quick Google would find the regulations related I'm sure.

You will need a Lawful Development Certificate to confirm that the new gateway does not require planning permission but any hardstanding within 25m of the highway will need full planning permission. Without knowing the full scenario it's difficult to give complete advice.

 

[slackjawedyokel]

Hmmmm the 3ft stream is going to be rather awkward. If you go the official route, you may be required to pay for a full environmental survey etc etc, have folks with the right bits of paper to repatriate any wildlife before you go at it with a digger and concrete pipes and so on. But then, if you JFDI you might get sued heavily for not going down the official route (whatever happened to that chap that sorted out the river with a 360?)

I suspect the paperwork involved is onerous. A few years ago we told the council that they needed to sort out a 3ft stream because it was about to start undercutting the side of a road bridge. (The stream was cutting a corner off and needed a 360 to put it back through the centre of the bridge.) The council said Don’t worry sir, we’ll keep an eye on it. They inspected it regularly until the side of the bridge washed away during a summer thunderstorm. The road was closed for ~18 months and I imagine the project to rebuild cost hundreds of times what was originally needed.
Re. the environmental side of things- survey found native crayfish. These were duely removed upstream before digging commenced, but according to the digger driver they found their way home quickly ‘cos he was digging loads of them out

The trouble when you have to deal with officialdom is that they have no real concept of costs or the time taken to do stuff. I don’t know what the right answer will be - maybe
# Find an acceptable way in from another field rather than the road.
# Is the stream on the roadside or the field side? If on the field side, would it be possible to undertake the works to put in concrete pipes or whatever quietly and without folks noticing? If so, do that then leave it to settle for a few years before sorting out the gateway. (Meantime, perhaps a gap slowly opens up a little at a time in the hedge - stranger things have happened!)

 

[PSQ]

The lesser crime would be to keep the existing gateway, but replace the old brick bridge after its 'untimely accidental demise'. And as it's being replaced with suitable girders and concrete panels it's going to need a wider gateway for the 'elf 'n' safety of the construction workers (i.e. you)...

 

[Steevo]

A bridge would certainly be less of an issue than piping the watercourse.

 

[PSQ]

A bridge would certainly be less of an issue than piping the watercourse.

But a short piped 'cundy' would be far quicker, and have a far smaller carbon footprint...

 

[steveR]

You need planning permission to move a gateway IIRC.

But if you just widen the existing one 5m I’m pretty sure you don’t need any planning permission at all.

Been there done that, got the Gateway...

 

[steveR]

You need to WIDEN (not move) the gateway to accommodate the size of today’s machinery. Add a new 16ft (or larger if you can find one) gate next to the existing gate (throwover hoop to fasten) and job’s done. I suspect you’re not supposed to widen gateways onto roads by 16ft at a time, but meh- you weren’t to know that!

Does it involve ripping out a bit of hedge or a tree or anything? That’s when you’re liable to get complaints. If just a fence then less likely!

Just improving the visibility splays innit....

 

[steveR]

Who owns the verge on the road side of the hedge, this could be an issue...

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Gateway is on a 'c' road which is well travelled (although nit busy) so would be seen / reported in an instant.

I'm thinking way to go is
A) council - put a pd in.
B) ea - new crossing before the old one caves in and blocks the Brook
C) highways - visibility - better visibility from new entrance.

B)
Is the watercourse designated as a "Main river"? If not then it's nothing to do with the EA, It's the "Lead Local Flood Authority" (generally the county council) that you need to talk to and their requirements are generally lower. Feel free to PM me if you want to know more.

 

[upnortheast]

B) ea - new crossing before the old one caves in and blocks the Brook

When we "improved " an existing bridge over a stream EA, or whatever they were called at the time, were not interested, as long as the flow was not impeded. Might be different if it is within X metres of a highway

 

[Hjcarter]

I think anything with wifey needs permission, technically in the right circumstances you could say its covered by permitted development but the circumstances are rarely right.... Christmas and birthdays are the usual times for trying the PD route.

Now, back to the gateway.....

Update, I asked wifey... Defiantly not going to get permitted development, she said I could put in for permission but would probably get turned down.

The only other option would be to appeal, that generally takes a long time - probably turned down and you finally lose interest in the project!!

 

[Vader]

Get yer point but unfortunately it involves pulling hedge, crossing brook, etc.

I suspect if you just get on and do it and officialdom comes after you it could cost a fortune in ripping it up and doing a motorway grade job. A bit of negotiations first might get a thumbs up for a more pragmatic approach....

Just do it, then park a caravan next to it and some rubbish.
Police and council will leave you to it....
Just do if on a bank holiday weekend like the caravan folk do and your ok..

 

[carbonfibre farmer]

Ummm....

@Nearly

 

[Ffermer Bach]

But a short piped 'cundy' would be far quicker, and have a far smaller carbon footprint...

I think @holwellcourfarm has said in the past, anyone can put a bridge over a river or stream, no body cares, but a culvert is a different matter, then the environment agency are very interested.

 

[Steevo]

Been there done that, got the Gateway...

Snap.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I think @holwellcourfarm has said in the past, anyone can put a bridge over a river or stream, no body cares, but a culvert is a different matter, then the environment agency are very interested.

Not quite "nobody cares" but they are much easier on a structure that spans clear across the bank top.