Manitou cold morning starting problems

Discussion in 'Machinery' started by CarpenterPaul, Oct 29, 2016.

  1. CarpenterPaul

    CarpenterPaul New Member

    Location:
    Karelia
    Hi all (and ACE, of course) .

    Winter is coming soon and my Manitou 1337, made in 2000, does not want to start like it does in the summer. It will crank until the not-so-new battery runs out of juice. Then I will charge the battery and with the help of a heating fan or ether spray it will start.

    Does this machine have glow plugs or one central glow plug?
     
  2. ACEngineering

    ACEngineering Member

    Location:
    Oxon
    This problem could be to do with the other problem you posted about fuel injector pump mounting loose. If the fuel pump is loose the timing will be out and this will affect the starting and running.

    If it is a 2000 built machine the bolts for the injector pump and on the inside of the timing case and thread in to the injection pump so have the threads in the injector pump failed? I think you need to fix this before you will know if the engine will run okay or not or is knackered and worn out internally causing it to not start and run well.

    Post a picture of the engine so I can see what type it is and what bolts are the problem.

    I have a workshop repair manual for it I can message you once I know what type it is.
     
  3. Rs chunk

    Rs chunk Member

    If it doesn't have one already fit a iskra starter motor it will turn the engine over quicker and make it start easier
     
    multi power likes this.
  4. ACEngineering

    ACEngineering Member

    Location:
    Oxon
    reading his other post the injector pump is loose on the timing case? so I think this will be most of his trouble as timing will be out!
     
    Rs chunk likes this.
  5. Sparkplug

    Sparkplug Member

    In that year the MT1337SLT was a high spec machine with 1004 Turbo as standard with just a inlet glow plug, and no reputation for poor starting, unless the engine is well worn and short of compression / coupled with a lazy starter motor and injection timing now out - give her a chance!! Sort the battery and starter motor out first then have the injection pump timed properly - one of the best models of the past sold widely throughout Ireland and Europe - UK Plant Hire Companies bought the basic MT1330SL - light weight and non turbo 90hp - spent mot of its time with the back wheels off the ground! Manitou were forced to fit the MT1337 counerweight to some Irish MT1330SL -it was not as stable as the machine it replaced the MT1230SCP.
     
  6. CarpenterPaul

    CarpenterPaul New Member

    Location:
    Karelia
    Thank you for your input.

    The engine number is AK80920, U085343G.

    Yes, the battery probably needs replaced, maybe even the starter. I still need to do something about the stripped bolts.

    However, back to the question on glow plugs. Our winter temps are often -20C, and there's no heated garage to keep our red baby in. That's why I am pressing with the glow plugs and maybe even an engine heater.

    Here are the missing screw pics:

    This is the only one remaining.
    DSC_0024.jpg

    This missing screw is a pain, you can hardly reach it! By the way, what is this sensor on the pic? I don't have any wires running to it.
    DSC_0027.jpg


    Here's another missing one.
    DSC_0017.jpg


    More engine pics: DSC_0040.jpg
    DSC_0041.jpg

    DSC_0042.jpg
     
  7. Sparkplug

    Sparkplug Member

    Yes, with temperatures that low you need everything in tip top condition. When I have sent machines to Scandinavia in the past I have fitted 2 x Batteries under the radiator and fitted Engine Block Heating System . But without accurate injection pump timing it is going to be hard starting anyway.
     
  8. CarpenterPaul

    CarpenterPaul New Member

    Location:
    Karelia
    Scandinavia is pretty much where we are: Karelia.

    Do you remember the total Ah capacity on the batteries? And how&where did you fit the engine block heater?
     
  9. powerfarmer

    powerfarmer Member

    Location:
    Cork Ireland
    That sensor with no wires going to it , where on the engine is it located ?
     
  10. FIL46

    FIL46 Member

    I had starting problems to check the fuel lift pump mine was worn and only pumping at half power cheap easy fix
     
  11. ACEngineering

    ACEngineering Member

    Location:
    Oxon
    Sensor with no wires on it should have a power feed to it, the sensor then sends this to the solenoid on injector pump located underneath to alter the timing for cold running! think it switches when engine reaches 50deg c?

    at -20 deg and with out that working it will run rough when cold! its amazing it runs at all really with the injector bolts missing etc!

    The missing bolts is an odd one. every machine I have done with these engines these bolts thread in from the inside of the timng case and thread in to the injector pump! not the other way round!

    I think some one may have stripped the threads on the injector pump holes then drilled them out and fitted nuts and bolts? with the nuts on the inside?!

    Edit, Just looked at my old Manitou here and I got it wrong they have a stud threaded in to the timing case and a nut on these. Later 1100series engines were the ones bolted from the inside out!
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016
  12. ACEngineering

    ACEngineering Member

    Location:
    Oxon
    power feed for the sensor with no wires on it comes off the fuel run/stop solenoid then another wire off the sensor takes it under the pump to the timing solenoid.

    I have a full perkins workshop manual I can try and email to the OP but its 16mb so will need a decent internet connection.

    Timing case wants coming off any way to sort that water leak from the gasket between timing case and block, common place to leak. It will no doubt be corroded so a new case will be needed which will sort the problem of stripped threads for the injector pump at same time(y)
     
    powerfarmer likes this.
  13. Sparkplug

    Sparkplug Member

    The Manitou of that age had enough room under the radiator to fit various battery combinations to suit cold climates around the world, but it is a few years ago since I sent a Machine to 79940 Vihtari Finland. Perkins sell a kit for Engine Block Pre-Heating to plug into your Electric Supply and pre heat the water in the block for easier starting - the kit is around £250-00 in the Uk - probably screws into a "Plugged Hole In The Water Jacket.
    If you give a Perkins Dealer your engine build number they will price up the correct kit for you.
     
  14. Gary Moor

    Gary Moor New Member

    Good afternoon
    I'm in south Africa and looking at buying an old 2000 MT1337 SLT. Any advice? Looks like about 15000hrs... They look like great machines? Wanting to push up wood chips
    We struggled to start it when I went to inspect early today. Maybe tired starter?
    Thanks in advance for any advice
    Gary

     
  15. Sparkplug

    Sparkplug Member

    With 15k hours it may be a combination of problems including poor compression, poor injectors, starter motor not swinging the engine fast enough, etc etc. In your warm climate, surely if the battery and starter motor are good it should start no trouble.
     
    ACEngineering likes this.
  16. ACEngineering

    ACEngineering Member

    Location:
    Oxon
    any perkins I seen get to 15k hours in a handler is about done:ROFLMAO:
     
  17. ACEngineering

    ACEngineering Member

    Location:
    Oxon
    rubbish starter motors are common with the perkins engine. there are more useless new perkins starters out there than decent brands.
    if it isn't spinning over fast then 99% of time its the starter motor
     
  18. Turra farmer

    Turra farmer Never Forgotten

    Manitou 627

    There is pressure when I take off the oil cap , ?

    We had an injector out , if it wasn't back in right would this cause pressure in oil cap ?

    There is also a regular hiss sound ?
     
  19. Mursal

    Mursal Member

    No to the sump pressure and yes to the hiss due to injector refitting.
    Sump ventilation hopefully blocked?
    If not you have excessive engine wear.
    But please await professional advice ................
     
  20. ACEngineering

    ACEngineering Member

    Location:
    Oxon
    Head gasket? Due to being cooked
    Same goes for pistons and rings could have picked up on bore.
    Or if your really lucky have seen turbo pressure sump as well.
     

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